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"Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them)
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JohanH:

--- Quote from: wraper on August 25, 2022, 11:41:32 am ---
The problem is that gas is still significantly cheaper and a lot of electricity is generated from gas. And electricity will become even more expensive if demand increases. Not to say investment you need to make to make the heating system replacement.

--- End quote ---

Still makes sense to create that electricity centrally with efficient gas turbines and use waste heat for e.g. central heating. To have everyone burn gas in their own small boiler is more wasteful. Heck, even burning gasoline in big power plants would be more efficient and have everyone drive electric cars.
madires:

--- Quote from: Miyuki on August 25, 2022, 11:35:36 am ---A modern air-source heat pump can keep COP above 3 down to -10°C ranges when need just low-temperature output for room heating and not deal with too much evaporator frosting

--- End quote ---

A recent study (monitoring modern heat pumps across the country) shows an average COP of 2.6 for Germany.
tautech:

--- Quote from: nctnico on August 25, 2022, 11:45:32 am ---
--- Quote from: tautech on August 25, 2022, 11:27:45 am ---The other option is to tear up the Paris accord and get back to exploring for fossil fuels and reopen coal mines and the like.

--- End quote ---
No. Not because of CO2 but because burning coal causes massive amounts of SO2 and NOx pollution which in turn makes people sick. Unless ofcourse you want to make sure your population doesn't get too old (like they seem to want in China).

Nuclear is the best option for now.

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Sure but being retired faster than being constructed.
Trump love or hate him warned the UK about their exposure to Russian energy supplies and they did nought to protect themselves and a year or 2 later the invasion came along and one didn’t need to be a rocket scientist to envisage how it would all play out.
Now look at all the suffering that may have been prevented if Europe had honoured their neighbour !
Miyuki:

--- Quote from: nctnico on August 25, 2022, 11:45:32 am ---
--- Quote from: tautech on August 25, 2022, 11:27:45 am ---The other option is to tear up the Paris accord and get back to exploring for fossil fuels and reopen coal mines and the like.

--- End quote ---
No. Not because of CO2 but because burning coal causes massive amounts of SO2 and NOx pollution which in turn makes people sick. Unless ofcourse you want to make sure your population doesn't get too old (like they seem to want in China).

Nuclear is the best option for now.

--- End quote ---
The problem is nuclear power plants take 10 to 15 years to build
You need to cover this time with something
JohanH:

--- Quote from: madires on August 25, 2022, 11:43:13 am ---
In many cases yes, but not in all. If your central heating needs a high flow temperature simply replacing the gas/oil furnace with a heat pump doesn't work (you have to invest much more to 'upgrade' your house). Doesn't work for historic buildings (over here) and large buildings are a challenge also. And with heat pumps and EVs we nead to generate at least two times more electric power than we currently do.

--- End quote ---

All this talk is stalling the inevitable. It works. 2/3 of my house is built in 1927. When switching to ground source heat pump, I installed larger radiators and some insulation in parts of the house and now get a total SCOP of 3.7 (in 2021). With even better insulation that would be around 4-5. My total electrical consumption has basically not changed due to this (don't have EVs yet, so that would add).
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