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| JohanH:
--- Quote from: nctnico on September 09, 2022, 09:46:34 am ---From what I understand the people in the east of Ukraine where neglected and didn't share in the economic growth the the country making it a very fertile breeding ground for mutany. There will be people who feel they are discriminated somehow and like to belong to a different group. Ethnic 'problems' are everywhere and can easely escalate. Likely Russia has fueled this situation and lit the fire. It takes a very carefull analysis of events to figure out what has happened exactly leading up to the civil war in the east of Ukraine. --- End quote --- That's Kremlin talk. Of course every country have their issues with poor areas etc, but there hasn't been ethnic issues in Ukraine. The only reason Putin is invading is his imperialism and need for more land. Ukraine is a rich country with lots of resources, grain, shipyards, coal, gas and oil in the east. The whole Soviet fleet was built in Ukraine (Russia doesn't have such capacities; can't build large ships). Of course Putin doesn't give a damned about the people. Russian army have killed 113 000 mostly Russian speakers in Mariupol. |
| tom66:
Don't forget, if they actually capture Mariupol and south east Ukraine for good, they will have access to an year-round ice-free port as well as land access to Sevastapol - that's a huge strategic advantage for Russia's navy and shipping trade. I think that's the ultimate goal here, as well as the gas in Donbas, not any supposed "ethnic" reasons. |
| Vovk_Z:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on September 08, 2022, 09:48:14 pm --- about the ethnic component to the war. Here's a thought experiment. If the war were to end today. What do you think would happen to all those ethnic Russians living in Eastern Ukraine? --- End quote --- One more fact about 'oppression'. Here is a video made by Russian-speaking! Ukrainian travel blogger about Mariupol (he is from Vishgorod it's near Kyiv). It was made right before a large war (a couple of months before February 2022). Mariupol was (and is now) a 99-100% Russian-speaking industrial city. A blogger made a serial about "Cities which I could move to". youtube. Ther are English subtitles too. Btw, now, that blogger Sasha Lyapota became totally Ukrainian-speaking (like many other previously Russian-speaking Ukrainians). Russia and Putin helped him to de-russificy itself within a several month. Btw #2. I was partially Russian-speaking too at work but became totally Ukrainian speaking somewhere in 2015 after Russia occupied Crimea and Donbas with one of the mottos 'We help and protect russian-speaking people'. Since that many Ukrainians turned totally to the Ukrainian language because they don't want Russia to 'protect' them, because Ukrainians started to understand what is 'Russian protection' (many knew it earlier, but not much). |
| G7PSK:
From what I understand the people in the east of Ukraine where neglected and didn't share in the economic growth the the country making it a very fertile breeding ground for mutany. There will be people who feel they are discriminated somehow and like to belong to a different group. Ethnic 'problems' are everywhere and can easely escalate. Likely Russia has fueled this situation and lit the fire. It takes a very carefull analysis of events to figure out what has happened exactly leading up to the civil war in the east of Ukraine. [/quote] I understood that the East of Ukraine is where the mineral and oil deposits are along with much of industry. Many of the weapon systems the Russians are using were made in Ukraine and now they are having to go cap in hand to the North Koreans to obtain more weapons as one of the first things they did at the start of the invasion is destroy weapon and high tech factories. Much of what the soviet era research and development was done by Ukrainians, you might say that not only have the Russians shot themselves in the foot but also the head at the same time. |
| dietert1:
There is a difference between Ukraine and western countries. While Ukraine was invaded twice, in 2014 and in 2022, Nato/EU countries were not. Western engagement stems from responsability as the current war was certainly triggered by western politics (e.g. cancellation of nuclear disarmament treaties, withdrawel from peace keeping in Afganistan, unrest in Belarus). What is a tragedy for Ukraine, apeears more like an accident or punishment from western view. We don't know yet how bad it can be. Regards, Dieter |
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