General > General Technical Chat
"Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them)
tom66:
Not only do they take over a decade to build we have a strong culture in this country of building absolutely nothing because there's some rare bird nest in a tree somewhere, or because Ms Jones at 123 Street Road can see it just over the horizon if she uses binoculars and that's just not okay.
I kind of wish we just had the guts to actually build infrastructure that would collectively benefit all of society but we seem to pay the most attention to landowners and their concerns instead.
tautech:
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 25, 2022, 11:56:56 am ---Not only do they take over a decade to build we have a strong culture in this country of building absolutely nothing because there's some rare bird nest in a tree somewhere, or because Ms Jones at 123 Street Road can see it just over the horizon if she uses binoculars and that's just not okay.
I kind of wish we just had the guts to actually build infrastructure that would collectively benefit all of society but we seem to pay the most attention to landowners and their concerns instead.
--- End quote ---
Have enough industry close and elderly freeze in a severe winter like that in WWII and everyone would change their tune.
Pain has a tendency to focus the mind.
nfmax:
--- Quote from: JohanH on August 25, 2022, 11:37:59 am ---
--- Quote from: wraper on August 25, 2022, 11:07:27 am ---
What the point from heat pumps in current situation when they are powered by electricity? With current electricity prices it sucks anyway. As for solar panels, where I live they are almost useless in winter when you need that heat pump the most. Also unless you install water type with a lot of digging, air source type performance really sucks when there is freezing temperature outside.
--- End quote ---
There is a big point. If gas and electricity cost the same, with a heat pump you create 3-5 times more energy than with gas (or direct resistive electrical heating). Even my old mother in law, now living in an empty house of her own, is now installing a ground source heat pump and ditching the oil boiler. And she isn't rich, living on low pension. Here, holes are usually drilled into the bedrock (our house has a 170 m hole) and it is done in one day. Drilling cost about 5000 €. The state gives some funding when switching from fossil to heat pumps.
--- End quote ---
I just bought 600 litres of oil (Kerosine) which will see me out the winter - I use a lot of firewood. I paid 0.88 GBP/litre after tax & delivery charge, which is less than half the quoted rate just after the war started. But the price is going back up now already. At 10.35 kWh/litre that is 8.5 p/kWh. Today, electricity costs me about 29 p/kWh giving a breakeven COP for a heat pump of 3.4 (including hot water supply) which is just about realistic. But we will find out tomorrow what the electricity price will be from October to January: predictions are around 52 - 55 p/kWh, which makes oil cheaper than any feasible heat pump. And the price is expected to go up again in January.
No gas supply here, so I don't know what the current price is.
tom66:
I wonder how practical self-arbitrage is. Buy energy when it is cheap, store in large LiFePO4 or Li-Ion battery, and use it for the day.
nfmax:
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 25, 2022, 12:04:50 pm ---I wonder how practical self-arbitrage is. Buy energy when it is cheap, store in large LiFePO4 or Li-Ion battery, and use it for the day.
--- End quote ---
Basically what I do with oil!
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