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"Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them)
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tom66:

--- Quote from: Siwastaja on September 13, 2022, 02:57:10 pm ---Yet, it might end up being not much more than that. We are getting scaremongered and seeing scaring signs, yet: [..]
--- End quote ---

Yep, this is what the media does not report.

Real wages (for the UK) have fallen this quarter, but are still above the pre-Covid slump.  Inflation bites into wages, but there is an unemployment problem, partially caused by Covid.  This means workers will continue to be able to demand high wages, and competition in the employment market is high.  This is not a bad situation, even for employers oddly, as it keeps things circulating.

Consumer confidence is wavering, but it's still reasonable.  There's not a shortage of activity on the high streets around here, people are still spending money.

While I'm not a fan of the overall implementation, the energy bills cap introduced by UK gov't will probably stave off any serious recession. There may be a small one, but c'est la vie.  I expect most major EU economies will act similarly.  Supporting industry is more difficult.

I am happy to bear some pain if it allows Ukraine to be victorious, and looking at recent results, it may be less time than I expect!
themadhippy:

--- Quote ---I'm not a fan of the overall implementation
--- End quote ---
whats wrong with the  average tax payer  paying to line the pockets of the energy companys shareholders?its what the majority voted for after all.
JPortici:

--- Quote from: langwadt on September 13, 2022, 12:08:13 pm ---is the current situation really much worse than the oil crisis and recession of the early 70's and 80's ?

--- End quote ---

according to my parents, it is not. Back then they couldn't use private cars during sundays (or weekends?) as there wasn't oil, period.
Currently it just costs "A lot more" (since last november, when it really started, i've spent about 300 euros more on diesel alone, just for going to work. This summer i almost never went far away on weekends because it cost too much)
iMo:
It is sometimes pretty funny to see the approach to this crisis and the war from the side of people coming from the pre-year-1989 "western" countries - something like - "let us negotiate somehow the peace in Ukraine and all will return back to the former life". A rather mechanistic approach, or even quite naive, even childish.

You should perhaps listen more to the new EU countries who spent decades under soviet siege - it could easily be they have a much better understanding what is going on today, as they understand the soviet and russian mentality much much better than the former "westeners"..

This all is not about Ukraine only - 90% of today's RU population considers 70% of current EU (and the future EU, incl. Ukraine in EU), and all the former soviet republics their ultimate "sphere of influence" based on the WWII result (that is for them carved in stone for ever), and they also want to see compensation for all the sanctions they received since ever.. And mind the current leaders there consider ".. the collapse of the Soviet Union the biggest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20tieth century.." [Putin April 29th, 2005], moreover, they still consider the West guilty for the economic turmoil there in 90ties..

All these events what you may see today are simply because the "imperium wants back their sphere of influence". It has less to do with the final outcome of the war in Ukraine or the actual thinking of the current leaders in Kremlin. It will stay the same paradigm even with any other new leaders there. The imperial soviet mentality is simply embedded deep in the souls of the vast majority of their population, effectively amplified by a decades of massive propaganda.
tszaboo:
So power to gas will be more profitable, and companies will do that. Germany is investing a load of money into that, excess solar power can be used to make your own CNG/LNG.
It's actually a transport problem, because prices in the USA and Canada is 1/10th of the prices here. So we build ships to transport it. Also, probably most of these prices are just going to brokers, who make extra profit. Govmt will step in and limit it when necessary.
The strategic storage tanks are almost full, everyone chillax. Except UK, because they don't want to do the right thing.
That big antagonist red country in the east might be a lot of smaller much friendlier countries in the near future. In 1989 it fell apart so quickly nobody expected.



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