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"Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them)

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daqq:

--- Quote from: james_s on September 13, 2022, 07:30:31 pm --- The only way to avoid voting for a bucket of shit is by not voting at all. The best you can do is aim for the best apparent ratio of good stuff to shit and hope for the best.
--- End quote ---
Funnily enough no. There are voting systems where the little guy with an appealing message can get the chance without actually throwing your vote into the trashcan, see: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/improving-democracy-through-math/

james_s:

--- Quote from: daqq on September 13, 2022, 07:36:30 pm ---
--- Quote from: james_s on September 13, 2022, 07:30:31 pm --- The only way to avoid voting for a bucket of shit is by not voting at all. The best you can do is aim for the best apparent ratio of good stuff to shit and hope for the best.
--- End quote ---
Funnily enough no. There are voting systems where the little guy with an appealing message can get the chance without actually throwing your vote into the trashcan, see: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/improving-democracy-through-math/

--- End quote ---

Well there are certainly advantages to that. You have to be careful though, sometimes the "little guy with an appealing message" turns out to be not very good in practice, we've seen a few of those get elected. It also doesn't change the fact that even those little guys often have some stance on something I don't like. There is no perfect candidate.

IconicPCB:
Zelenski?

daqq:

--- Quote from: james_s on September 13, 2022, 07:40:19 pm ---
--- Quote from: daqq on September 13, 2022, 07:36:30 pm ---
--- Quote from: james_s on September 13, 2022, 07:30:31 pm --- The only way to avoid voting for a bucket of shit is by not voting at all. The best you can do is aim for the best apparent ratio of good stuff to shit and hope for the best.
--- End quote ---
Funnily enough no. There are voting systems where the little guy with an appealing message can get the chance without actually throwing your vote into the trashcan, see: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/improving-democracy-through-math/

--- End quote ---

Well there are certainly advantages to that. You have to be careful though, sometimes the "little guy with an appealing message" turns out to be not very good in practice, we've seen a few of those get elected. It also doesn't change the fact that even those little guys often have some stance on something I don't like. There is no perfect candidate.

--- End quote ---
The alternative to 'giving the little guy with an appealing message a chance' and 'one of two parties or chuck your vote into the trashcan' is to do away with democracy altogether - that's just math.

And yeah, there is no perfect candidate, but with a plurality (say, six) of political parties where none have the majority you can create a situation where they need to work together to get anything done, either forming coalitions of parties or negotiating between themselves. That allows a finer grained choice and the parties are forced to represent a wider range of interests.

I'll be the first one to say that Slovakian politics are a mess, but at least there's a choice - there's some 50 active political parties, 25 of which tried their hand in the last election, 6* of which managed to get into the parliament.
The parties available  represented most everything, from communists, through pirates, Christian conservatives, libertarians, various flavors of socialists to nazis**.


* - a tad more complicated.
** - like, actual nazis, whos party members had a history of stuff like marching in uniforms very reminiscent of a very awkward period of Slovakian history...


edit: Formating

tom66:

--- Quote from: wraper on September 13, 2022, 05:50:01 pm ---The problem is you are not supposed to eliminate dependency by destroying your country in the process. The only way EU can live without of Russian gas in short term is shutting down a huge number of factories.

--- End quote ---

Not sure that is true.

Shortfall of gas is about 25%, given increases in Norway/UK production, additional LNG deliveries, etc.  This will probably fall to around 15% within a year but assume 25% for now.

EU has proposed measures to reduce gas usage by 10% in the public sector, currently optional, which may become mandatory. Hungary continues to receive Russian gas without restriction because, well, Orban.  Electricity usage will be supplemented by Germany delaying nuclear shut downs.

So realistically if those are implemented you are looking at a 10-15% reduction in gas usage in industry.  I think that's manageable, obviously the heaviest industries (glass making is a good example) will struggle more.  But a great deal of industrial gas is just spent on heating factories, offices and so on, so that will just mean they are a bit colder.

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