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"Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them)

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tom66:
Last I looked I could build a 15kWh battery - which when combined with solar - for about £7,000.  Or 10kWh if I buy a pre made kit.

I've seen Economy7 tariffs at 20p/kWh in the off peak and say 60p/kWh in on peak.  Compared to e.g. 52p/kWh in normal peak usage.  If the usage can be all put into the off peak then there is a saving of 32p/kWh per unit (assuming 100% efficiency, blah blah).  Excluding PHEV (that can charge in the off peak too), I use about 4000kWh per year electricity.   I may be able to shift even more into the off peak but this is a base assumption.   So that is saving ~£1,300 year, or payback time of about 5-6 years.

That almost seems reasonable.  The batteries are warrantied for between 9-12 years, and if even a small amount of solar is added into the equation, it could make it a no brainer.

The question really is... will high energy prices remain here for 5 years or more?  Or will it be a short blip and then a return to normal?

tautech:

--- Quote from: tom66 on August 25, 2022, 11:56:56 am ---Not only do they take over a decade to build we have a strong culture in this country of building absolutely nothing because there's some rare bird nest in a tree somewhere, or because Ms Jones at 123 Street Road can see it just over the horizon if she uses binoculars and that's just not okay.

I kind of wish we just had the guts to actually build infrastructure that would collectively benefit all of society but we seem to pay the most attention to landowners and their concerns instead.

--- End quote ---
Problem is unless you’re near a plate boundary or volcano land isn’t growing on trees so rightfully what we have need be used wisely. From what we see the UK has mainly hamlets throughout the countryside in the effort to protect the productive farmland from senseless subdivision whereas here close to cities housing is expanding horizontally instead of vertically in some effort to protect the productive countryside.

Trouble is, someone has to grow balls and make decisions for the future rather than we all get backed harder against the wall before something is done. Europes current predicament only lays out the future for everywhere and we can all learn from it however the unpreparedness is a shock to its citizens but serves as a good warning to the rest of us to get our shit together by hammering bureaucrats for decent solutions or say stuff them all and go it alone ! 

Stray Electron:

--- Quote from: Squarewave on August 24, 2022, 08:50:07 pm ---Announcement on the radio today said that the UK has just done a month with no Russian energy,

--- End quote ---

   I suspect that what they didn't tell you is that they were still running off of stored reserves.  If they can run for a month with no imported fuel and without drawing down any of their reserves, then great.  But I don't think that many countries will be able to and particularly over a period of years.

   A lot of the Greens in Germany and elsewhere are exclaiming, "No problem we'll just built more windmills, more hydrogen plants", etc.  The trouble is that it's going to take a lot of additional energy to built those additional windmill and other projects and it will take years to build them. On top of that the entire distribution systems for oil, LNG, electricity will also have to be built or vastly enlarged. So do you use what energy we have to heat our homes, distribute our food and run our industries or do we use it all to produce more gewgaw gadgets that we HOPE will produce some energy in (realistically) 20 to 30 years?

   If you think that I'm not serious, consider the fact that Germany has been widely installing wind turbines since about 1995 but as of 2021 those still only provide 22% of their electrical needs and contributes nothing to their oil and LNG requirements. 

   Importing LNG has the same sorts of problems; there aren't enough ports in Europe to deliver it to, not nearly enough vessels to move the necessary amounts and no distribution system once you get it to a port.  And I don't think that the US, Canada, the middle east or anywhere else has the existing port capacity to ship the needed amounts of LNG.

   What is needed for the US, Canada, England and the EU to THROW their environmental studies and other long slow, drawn out, processes out the window and to engage in a CRASH PROGRAM of ship building, port building, pipeline building, oil and gas well drilling and the other NECESSARY infrastructure as quickly as humanly possible.  Similar to the way that the ALCAN highway, the Ledo road and many ports in the Pacific were built in World War II.  Until that's done, the people in Europe are going to go cold and hungry.

   Many Enviro-nuts are touting Hydrogen but there is NO infrastructure in place for a hydrogen production, distribution or cars or industry to use it.  I hate to use the term "A pipe dream", but that exactly describes the future for hydrogen for at least the next 40 years. And most like MUCH longer given the priorities of the other more realistic energy supply systems.

HobGoblyn:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 24, 2022, 09:07:35 pm ---Yeah, I'm not so sure.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/trendsinukimportsandexportsoffuels/2022-06-29

--- End quote ---

UK imports loads but not from Russia

madires:

--- Quote from: JohanH on August 25, 2022, 11:56:11 am ---All this talk is stalling the inevitable. It works. 2/3 of my house is built in 1927. When switching to ground source heat pump, I installed larger radiators and some insulation in parts of the house and now get a total SCOP of 3.7 (in 2021).

--- End quote ---

Over here special protection rules apply to historic buildings. You aren't allowed to change the face of such a building in any way. So you can't simply add insulation. And adding insulation at the inside would most likely damage the walls on the long term by shifting the dew point further inside. Heats pumps are great but not a panacea. We have to check the feasibility for each building.

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