General > General Technical Chat
"Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them)
nctnico:
--- Quote from: wraper on September 17, 2022, 12:41:22 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on September 17, 2022, 12:28:15 pm ---
--- Quote from: IconicPCB on September 17, 2022, 10:51:53 am ---and everybody ignores alleged deaths of some 15000 Ukrainian citizens in Donbas slaughtered by the Ukrainian government in the past seven to eight years way before Russia went into U sector and kraine.
--- End quote ---
Nobody is ignoring that but the big question is: who told those people to take up arms against their own government? If you start a civil war against the government, it is to be expected that there will be casualties.
--- End quote ---
The problem is that it wasn't the government they elected. It was government led by ultra nationalists which came in power in coup d'etat.
--- End quote ---
It is not that simple. There is a whole string of events going back from the fall of the USSR that has led to the current situation in Ukraine with many players involved. If you really want to point fingers, you need to unravel that first in great detail (and likely get rid of layers of propaganda in the process) to dig down to the actual facts.
wraper:
--- Quote from: nctnico on September 17, 2022, 04:55:50 pm ---
--- Quote from: wraper on September 17, 2022, 12:41:22 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on September 17, 2022, 12:28:15 pm ---
--- Quote from: IconicPCB on September 17, 2022, 10:51:53 am ---and everybody ignores alleged deaths of some 15000 Ukrainian citizens in Donbas slaughtered by the Ukrainian government in the past seven to eight years way before Russia went into U sector and kraine.
--- End quote ---
Nobody is ignoring that but the big question is: who told those people to take up arms against their own government? If you start a civil war against the government, it is to be expected that there will be casualties.
--- End quote ---
The problem is that it wasn't the government they elected. It was government led by ultra nationalists which came in power in coup d'etat.
--- End quote ---
It is not that simple. There is a whole string of events going back from the fall of the USSR that has led to the current situation in Ukraine with many players involved. If you really want to point fingers, you need to unravel that first in great detail (and likely get rid of layers of propaganda in the process) to dig down to the actual facts.
--- End quote ---
And US certainly has nothing to do with that.
nctnico:
I never implied the US has nothing to do with what is happening. It would be utterly naive to think that the US has been sitting on their hands. Earlier in this thread I already wrote that it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out the US has helped Poetin to gain power over Russia. Then again I'm not going to rely on random Youtube videos posing as a reliable source of information.
Either way, it is going to be more productive on focussing on how to resolve the situation and keep it stable in the future. For that to happen Russia has to get (or kicked) out of Ukraine first. After that everyone can calm down.
vad:
--- Quote from: nctnico on September 17, 2022, 06:19:07 pm ---Either way, it is going to be more productive on focussing on how to resolve the situation and keep it stable in the future. For that to happen Russia has to get (or kicked) out of Ukraine first. After that everyone can calm down.
--- End quote ---
Putin will loose his grip on power when Russian military is defeated in Ukraine.
The fastest way to do it - give Ukraine weapons it needs.
wraper:
--- Quote from: vad on September 17, 2022, 08:51:14 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on September 17, 2022, 06:19:07 pm ---Either way, it is going to be more productive on focussing on how to resolve the situation and keep it stable in the future. For that to happen Russia has to get (or kicked) out of Ukraine first. After that everyone can calm down.
--- End quote ---
Putin will loose his grip on power when Russian military is defeated in Ukraine.
The fastest way to do it - give Ukraine weapons it needs.
--- End quote ---
Or it happens in exactly opposite way, ensures prolonged stalemate war and maximizes casualties. Sure it will weaken Russia a lot. However the price of humans lives in Ukraine would be devastating.
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