Author Topic: "Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them)  (Read 79080 times)

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Offline vad

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Better yet, grant Ukraine NATO membership now. The war will be over in 24 hours, with Putin’s retreat.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 10:33:01 pm by vad »
 

Online langwadt

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Better yet, grant Ukraine NATO membership now. The war will be over in 24 hours, with Putin’s retreat.

can't join NATO while in a conflict and Ukraine is no where near fulfilling the requirements for NATO membership
 

Offline Vovk_Z

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and everybody ignores alleged deaths of some 15000 Ukrainian citizens in Donbas slaughtered by the Ukrainian government in the past seven to eight years way before Russia went into U sector and  kraine.
These people were murdered by the followers of Bandera often times as members of the Right Sector and Azov brigades with the blessing of Kiev government.
So, those '15000' dead citizens were 'protected from the Right Sector and Azov brigades' in Donbas by russia? Ok, if they die 'protected' then we all can guess how many Ukrainian citizens were killed by 'the Right Sector and Azov brigades' on the 'unprotected' (unoccupied) territory 'with the blessing of Kiev government'. It was about 90-95% of a territory unoccupied by russia. So, it must be at least 10x15000 killed or even an order or two more, eh? But not, there were about 0 (ZERO) citizens 'murdered' on a Ukraine government-controlled territory by 'the Right Sector and Azov brigades' (which is not surprising).
That is why we may make a conclusion about who is an aggressor and from which side aggression went from.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 11:03:19 pm by Vovk_Z »
 

Online tszaboo

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or pull the west into the conflict
Genius! Assuming you live in NATO country, are you personally going to defend Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, when Putin is done with Ukraine and gets his hands on 20 million conscripts?

The army is getting rekt by 16 Himars. The west has 500, and no better targets.
More Javelin has been sent to Ukraine, than the number of tanks russia has, and the system has 93% successful kill ratio.
Meanwhile they are conscripting convicted felons, sending it to the front in 60 year old tanks.
The reality of the situation is that we have a rocket for everything they have, ten times over, at any distance.
 
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Offline Vovk_Z

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Better yet, grant Ukraine NATO membership now. The war will be over in 24 hours, with Putin’s retreat.
As a Ukrainian, I would want it, but I understand that it doesn't work in such a way for an ongoing conflict. So, we have to end it ourselves. We just need some help with weaponry etc.

BTW, close to the topic: Ukraine sells a lot of electricity to the EU now. It was a long process before, and the Ukrainian grid was connected to the EU right at beginning of this war. We sell electricity to Romania and Slovakia now.
 

Offline Vovk_Z

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Implement the Minsk agreement.
I haven't seen anything russia has done to implement them. Had russia withdrawn its forces from Donbas? - no!
Ukrainians were agree for peacekeeping forces from the UN - but russia was agree only with their own russian 'peacekeeping forces'. So, obviously, that is not a deal. Because there isn't any difference between their occupating armed forces and their 'peacekeeping forces'.
 

Offline vad

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The army is getting rekt by 16 Himars. The west has 500, and no better targets.
More Javelin has been sent to Ukraine, than the number of tanks russia has, and the system has 93% successful kill ratio.
Meanwhile they are conscripting convicted felons, sending it to the front in 60 year old tanks.
The reality of the situation is that we have a rocket for everything they have, ten times over, at any distance.
Well, that’s excellent analysis of a rational person.

I doubt, however, that when it comes to Putin, we are dealing with rational person who has access to good analysts. If that was true, Putin would not have started this war.

Now Putin’s rationale for going after a NATO state, once he is done with Ukraine, could be as follows:

1) Once Russia occupies Ukraine, a country of 40 million, Putin will get his hands on 10-20 million of potential conscripts, saving him from hiring convicts.

2) If you listen to Russian state media, it is the West, and in particular NATO, who is the Russian’s enemy, not Ukraine. For Putin, giving NATO a blow, would be both a revenge and an opportunity to restore Russia’s dominance in Eastern Europe.

3) Putin does not seem to be suicidal. He will not attack the US, the UK, or any other state with nuclear weapons. When giving NATO the blow, he will choose the easiest victim. Most likely one of smaller Baltic countries with large ethnic Russian population, one that can be overrun by tank division in several hours.

4) By the time leaders of NATO nations could even meet to discuss their response, the occupiers would already have taken control of all government and critical infrastructure buildings, and a caucus of local collaborators would have voted for accession to New Soviet Union.

Over the next few months, there would be heated debates both in the US media and in the US Administration, on whether the US should provide military support to the government that ceased to exist, and risk full blown nuclear confrontation with Russia. Media stars, such as Tucker Carlson, would argue during prime time that the Baltic state was corrupt, supported Nazis in 1941, and that the US has more important things to do.

In Europe, Germany would send a truckload of band aids, but would be hesitant to send troops, afraid of disruption to Nord Stream 1, 2 and 3 operations.

Elections in France would finally swing in favor of Le Pen, where citizens would overwhelmingly demand France’s exit from NATO, refusing to give lives of French military for freedom of the faraway country.

Other NATO states would also refuse meeting their Article 5 obligations, denouncing their NATO memberships.

5) Others, such as Poland, would be watching Russian hoards, made mostly of millions of Ukrainian conscripts, gathering at their borders.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 02:32:46 am by vad »
 
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Offline Vovk_Z

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Or it happens in exactly opposite way, ensures prolonged stalemate war and maximizes casualties.
I see a Latvian flag on your profile but... (somehow I think you are not Latvian but a Russian who accidentally lives in Latvia). May I ask you a question: Was Latvia occupied since 1940 by the Soviet Union or not?
 

Online IconicPCB

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Quote from: IconicPCB on Yesterday at 09:22:05 pm

    Implement the Minsk agreement.

This agreement died on 24 February 2022

Well that is true... I bet though Ukrainian peoples wish that option were still available to them.
But it is too late for that option... the two republics have been recognised as independent states now.

It will be impossible to unwind their independence now.
 

Online themadhippy

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Quote
it is the West, and in particular NATO, who is the Russian’s enemy, not Ukraine.
That sounds familiar,o yea americas excuse for going into Vietnam wasnt to fight the Vietnamese,it was  to stop the spread of communism in south asia. And then a few years later got really arsey when one of its neighbors wanted a few nukes.
 

Offline vad

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It will be impossible to unwind their independence now.
Easy peasy to unwind. The process is called goodwill gesture:

https://youtu.be/uQgQVzJ_rR4

 :)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 02:23:02 am by vad »
 

Offline vad

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Quote
it is the West, and in particular NATO, who is the Russian’s enemy, not Ukraine.
That sounds familiar,o yea americas excuse for going into Vietnam wasnt to fight the Vietnamese,it was  to stop the spread of communism in south asia. And then a few years later got really arsey when one of its neighbors wanted a few nukes.
Well, learn Russian, and then read and listen to Russian media. With technology from companies like Google, you may be able to skip the former…
 

Online IconicPCB

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It will be impossible to unwind their independence now.
Easy peasy to unwind. The process is called goodwill gesture:

https://youtu.be/uQgQVzJ_rR4

 :)


Except  democracy beats Your wishful thinking. Russia entered Ukraine after eight years of negotiations and 15000 civilians getting slaughtered by right wing extremists with Ukrainian government's blessing.

Now that Donbas republics are established we can say the bread is broken, the loaf will never be whole in one piece.  Ukraine lost all credibility by rejecting a peaceful solution ( NORMANDY FORMAT MINSK AGREEMENT) which guaranteed Donbas republics would remain within Ukraine.

This decision is now resulting in voices asserting modern Ukraine borders are unnatural such that :

"... The former Romanian diplomat made the controversial remark earlier on Saturday at the Alba Transylvania book fair, where he presented his new book ‘The Fate of Democracy’ and suggested that leading world powers should come together and agree on a new “security structure” in Europe and worldwide.

We are in a very special situation here, and I take this with all responsibility, Ukraine exists in unnatural borders. It should cede Transcarpathia to Hungary, Galicia to Poland, Bukovina to Romania, Donbass and Crimea to Russia. These are the territories of other countries,” he said, listing the regions that were incorporated into then-Soviet Ukraine by the Communists, but which he thinks should be relinquished..."

One more thing to consider...ask Yourself what is happening with Ukrainian refugees in Poland? How well are they being integrated into polish society and what does that mean for Polish claims on Ukrainian borders?
 

Offline Forester

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and massacre in Odessa
That wasn't a 'massacre'. That was a tragedy fire caused by russian terrorist-separatist forces. They thought that Odessa is 'a Russian city' because it is 100% russian speaking. So russians wanted to 'protect' it by occupation (as usual).
You want to present to us that tragic accident as a system. But not. There wasn't anything similar pre- and after that.
Do not lie. There are many videos where Molotov cocktail bottles are thrown at the house, and the police stand by and do nothing. Or is the police of Ukraine also pro-Russian terrorist-separatist? There, some citizens of Ukraine burned others because of their political views, but the authorities did nothing. The West, which patronizes Ukraine, pretended that nothing had happened. If the dead threatened Ukraine, then why weren't they arrested earlier?
 

Online IconicPCB

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I am tired of this blatant whinge and win Ukrainian attitude.

It may be time to return to the original topic.

Let  Vovk and his kind start a topic on their own. It may be time to just ignore their " ALTERNATE FACTS " and get on with our lives in the hope our taxes will not be squandered by our politicians.

My ( hopefully ) final response to this subject.
 

Online Siwastaja

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I am tired

The problem is this:

You are safely in Australia. Putin is not going to ass-rape your family. Me live in Finland. Me have wife and kid. Me have Putin next door, ready to turn my kid into a Russian and me and my wife into pieces of meat.

And we have been conditioned with the exact same propaganda that was used prior to attacking Ukraine. This is why I know. I don't need to try to navigate within two different and opposite sources of propaganda. I can see right through it.

Now get this: when Putin decides Finland is worth of their resources to pursue and attack here, then you will go: MUH I KNOW THE FACTS Finland is a former nazi country where kids of Russians are routinely taken into custody, I know because I follow the REAL sources muh muh!

This is because you don't have a freaking clue what and where Finland is, and suddenly someone brings up decade-old articles how we are nazis here. WE know where this bullshit originated from, but you don't. To you, it clicks in place - oh, two sides of coin, this is a nazi country, so maybe denazification isn't that bad? This is a conflict, not a war.

You are a dangerous individual, because you are a so-called useful idiot. And worse, I consider you and some others direct threat to me and my family.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 06:30:08 am by Siwastaja »
 
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Online Siwastaja

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Do not lie.

It is also really interesting to see how moderators of this forum have decided outsiders can now register on the forum just to join political threads.

I understand flexing on the rules to allow regulars sometimes drift into politics before locking the threads. I however do not understand letting Kremlin propaganda bots register on the forum with no real participation on electronics-related topics.
 
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Online tom66Topic starter

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It would be nice if we could focus on
- How to deal with high prices as an individual
- What long term forecasts look like
- Causes of the gas shortage (not just Russia, as prices were high pre-invasion)

Without focusing too much on the invasion of Ukraine which will always be politically charged.

Maybe?
 

Offline Simon

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Do not lie.

It is also really interesting to see how moderators of this forum have decided outsiders can now register on the forum just to join political threads.

I understand flexing on the rules to allow regulars sometimes drift into politics before locking the threads. I however do not understand letting Kremlin propaganda bots register on the forum with no real participation on electronics-related topics.

So as we are on the topic of propaganda and lies perhaps you can explain this "process" whereby we explicitly decide to allow anything. This forum is mostly self regulating, if you don't report then we don't know! not knowing something is happening is totally different from explicitly allowing it. User registrations are not screened.

I will now lock this topic as clearly it will never stay on topic, I am amazed at so few reports on a topic like this that has run for so long.
 
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