Author Topic: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.  (Read 110577 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SparkyFX

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 600
  • Country: de
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1375 on: September 09, 2019, 05:05:32 pm »
Why is the lack of men in child care centres not a problem?
Because... drumroll... many corporations turn out to be a large kindergarten anyway! The antics are similar and at the end of the day you feel like either the kid or the child care worker and wonder why this really needed to take so much time from the actual work. :D So yeah, i tend to think a better child care might help society in a few decades to get rid of such problems.

To answer that question is to answer the entire rise of the modern social justice warrior movement, in particular over the last decade.
Ultimately a lot of it is about personal validation and appearing virtuous to others for various social and political gains. The modern twitter and Facebook "Like" mechanisms have fueled this to a huge degree.
As self-representation is the only core aspect for a node in the social networks (no topic, initially), the only metric is how many connections one "node" can establish, defining somewhat of a value. Without a purpose these drift toward opinion based discussions/content which then are somewhat judged by appearance of majority, but majorities are not guaranteed to be right on a subject, some enrage each other up to the point it becomes ridiculous. So it is all opinion, the rest of the world usually does not care and goes by what is most comfortable.

But as with most phenomena of the interwebs, imo those are not new, they are just more visible and accessible than they were e.g. 50 years ago. Social life starts to be organized within social networks mainly, so many people are pulled in there that otherwise would not mind to join one.
Support your local planet.
 

Offline tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4836
  • Country: ch
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1376 on: September 09, 2019, 05:35:27 pm »
So the name-calling isn't an attempt to convince anyone, it's an expression of frustration
Very weak and totally unneccesary or called for IMO.
You are playing Don Quichote but noones understands your point, perhaps because you have none.
No, I have one, but people don't see it because all anyone here wants is to have their opinions confirmed.

What you want is an explanation why not more women choose a certain specific area of STEM study. Right?
No.

Go find that explanation then, ask where you can get an answer, on some forum where many women are, not on an engineers forum where valid proven arguments are required which are impossible to get from a gamma study as social psychology.
Again, the "engineers need facts" lie you all tell yourselves in order to dismiss things you don't agree with. In the year this thread has gone on, I've provided ample facts and examples, and they just get ignored, or declared "myths" regardless of veracity. It's got nothing to do with facts and all to do with opinions, which most participants in this thread are unable to distinguish.
 

Offline coppice

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5352
  • Country: gb
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1377 on: September 09, 2019, 05:41:13 pm »
No, I have one, but people don't see it because all anyone here wants is to have their opinions confirmed.
I find your lack of self awareness amusing, if sad.
 

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5792
  • Country: nl
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1378 on: September 09, 2019, 06:43:59 pm »
No, I have one, but people don't see it because all anyone here wants is to have their opinions confirmed.
Couple if pages back that was what asked yourself.
So what is your point exactly then?
 

Offline Nominal Animal

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1580
  • Country: fi
    • My home page and email address
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1379 on: September 09, 2019, 07:40:14 pm »
So the name-calling isn't an attempt to convince anyone, it's an expression of frustration at the enormous bull-headedness, willful ignorance, and entitlement displayed by most participants in this thread, which has become an echo chamber (hence the "circle jerk" jab). I've had a few PM conversations with other sensible people who are fed up with this stupid thread, all of whom gave up and retreated because it's so futile. So no, it's not a failed attempt to convince anyone, it's a deliberate "Fuck you, assholes. I give up.", because despite Dave's naïve belief that engineers just believe facts, no amount of level-headed arguments will convince these pricks.
No, you're completely mistaken.  What you are feeling, is cognitive dissonance caused by rationally realizing that the ideology you try to push is untenable, but are emotionally unwilling and unable to even consider the possibility of your ideology being wrong.

That in itself has nothing to do with gender politics, as it is a completely normal reaction in anyone capable of rational analytical thought but programmed by any ideology.
This is also why the proponents of such ideologies are so hard set against rationalism, honest discourse, and questions; labeling them as "bull-headedness" (of refusing to accept the ideology as Right without questioning it), "racist" (for not rejecting individualism and accepting intersectionalist tribal politics), and whatnot.

Most posts in this lengthy thread have been either observations, or links to research, and opinions formed based on those.  You yourself have presented zero evidence, just claim that it exists, and that others should do the work of finding and proving its relevance, because you having the correct opinion are obviously above such menial tasks.

Your completely emotional response to a very rational and intellectual discussion on what we know about human behaviour is a perfect example of the futility of talking to ideologically programmed humans such as yourself.  You truly believe that a "balanced discussion" is where you state your feelings, and others accept them as real-world facts, and thank you for your wise words, and treat you as their superior.  You are used to behaving that way yourself.  Your slip of the tongue about "incels" shows that this ideology is deeply connected to your own sexuality; most likely, you believe that if you act this way, you might actually be awarded a partner by the leaders of your ideological faction.

No.  Fuck you and your sick ideology.
 

Online maginnovision

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1655
  • Country: us
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1380 on: September 09, 2019, 08:04:30 pm »
So the name-calling isn't an attempt to convince anyone, it's an expression of frustration at the enormous bull-headedness, willful ignorance, and entitlement displayed by most participants in this thread, which has become an echo chamber (hence the "circle jerk" jab). I've had a few PM conversations with other sensible people who are fed up with this stupid thread, all of whom gave up and retreated because it's so futile. So no, it's not a failed attempt to convince anyone, it's a deliberate "Fuck you, assholes. I give up.", because despite Dave's naïve belief that engineers just believe facts, no amount of level-headed arguments will convince these pricks.
No, you're completely mistaken.  What you are feeling, is cognitive dissonance caused by rationally realizing that the ideology you try to push is untenable, but are emotionally unwilling and unable to even consider the possibility of your ideology being wrong.

If he really works at a university you can't expect him to hold any other view.
 

Online magic

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1947
  • Country: pl
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1381 on: September 09, 2019, 11:16:04 pm »
This picture leaves an important detail and distinction out.  How did you get from the left to the right side?

This is the problem with socialism - it is THEFT
Meh, that's an argument from 100 years ago.
Today it's all about capitalism and investment. Diversity will increase economic output and pay for itself.

For example, I was fortunate in having the opportunity to go to university easily, in that my whole childhood, my parents supported my areas of interest, were able to do things like help with homework, and were able to pay for university.
In many European countries public universities are free. Gender ratios in engineering are as you would expect.
In the former Eastern Bloc, commies spent decades trying to get women onto tractors. And similar stuff. Gender ratios as you would expect.
The USSR had extremely successful female chess team which consistently won international women's competitions. Their results with men - as you would expect.
:horse:

Socialism is not diversity. You can use it as a means, but you soon find out like Spain that it needs to be used asymmetrically if diversity is your actual goal.
 

Offline Circlotron

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1809
  • Country: au
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1382 on: September 09, 2019, 11:43:25 pm »
Why is the lack of men in child care centres not a problem?
Because... drumroll... many corporations turn out to be a large kindergarten anyway! The antics are similar and at the end of the day you feel like either the kid or the child care worker and wonder why this really needed to take so much time from the actual work. :D
Not so different to a certain internet forum thread, with moderators and contributors.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 11:47:12 pm by Circlotron »
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31212
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1383 on: September 09, 2019, 11:54:17 pm »
A level playing field is what I want, and I've said this throughout this thread. Which is why I have consistently denounced nonsense like lowering admissions requirements for some groups, or forcing equality of outcomes by enforcing quotas and the like. But I strongly believe that equality of opportunity doesn't mean the same thing as offering no help to those who need it. Help isn't the same thing. 

I don't think anyone here is talking about not offering help to those that generally need it. The examples we have been talking about on here are not about that.

Quote
Respecfully, you've fallen into the trap of throwing ad hominems rather than addressing your case.
Oh, no, I haven't fallen into any trap (as in, it's not accidental). I have tried addressing my case at length in this thread (we're talking since the beginning of the thread), and each time, I get gaslighted, accused of saying things I didn't say, derailed, and otherwise dismissed, among other things.

So the name-calling isn't an attempt to convince anyone, it's an expression of frustration at the enormous bull-headedness, willful ignorance, and entitlement displayed by most participants in this thread, which has become an echo chamber (hence the "circle jerk" jab).

How about you just bugger off from this thread if you don't like it?
Us "butt-hurt misogynistic, argumentative, gaslighting, condescending, borderline incel, right-wing circle-jerkers" don't have to behave the way you want us to, or talk the way you want us to, or have the opinions you want us to.

Quote
I've had a few PM conversations with other sensible people who are fed up with this stupid thread, all of whom gave up and retreated because it's so futile.

There is a forum feature that lets you ignore threads.

Quote
So no, it's not a failed attempt to convince anyone, it's a deliberate "Fuck you, assholes. I give up.", because despite Dave's naïve belief that engineers just believe facts, no amount of level-headed arguments will convince these pricks.

Are you looking to get banned over this?
I'll make it very clear, stop the name calling.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 11:57:25 pm by EEVblog »
 

Offline alank2

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2004
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1384 on: September 10, 2019, 12:12:14 am »
Meh, that's an argument from 100 years ago.
Today it's all about capitalism and investment. Diversity will increase economic output and pay for itself.

What does this even mean?  Not taking what belongs to others is so 100 years ago?  That capitalism and investment make things so good that people shouldn't mind a little THEFT of their funds for redistribution?  What exactly pays for itself?  Redistribution is THEFT, pure and simple, whether it is government sanctioned or not.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11656
  • Country: us
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1385 on: September 10, 2019, 12:19:10 am »
Capitalism, socialism and the other isms have become religious beliefs. When applied in pure form they all eventually lead to the same situation, a consolidation of wealth and power amongst an elite few. Capitalism has the advantage of affording the common individual some degree of control over their destiny however once a person attains a sufficient amount of wealth it becomes self sustaining at the expense of everyone else.

The real world is not a land of black &a white absolutes and in reality concepts like the isms do not exist in a vacuum. A sensible approach is to apply different tools to different problems, mixing and matching as needed. I'm a believer in capitalism overall but it requires checks & balances and some concepts like insurance for example are inherently socialist.
 
The following users thanked this post: tom66

Offline fourfathom

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 304
  • Country: us
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1386 on: September 10, 2019, 12:44:41 am »
once a person attains a sufficient amount of wealth it becomes self sustaining at the expense of everyone else.
Care to elaborate?  Are you thinking "zero-sum game" or "outsized influence" or something else?

some concepts like insurance for example are inherently socialist.
 
I thought these were inherently voluntary, at least until it becomes mandatory, with guaranteed coverage for non-payers.  This is probably a good idea in some cases, but it is far from "inherent".

As for the original topic, I am getting tired of being excoriated here because so few women choose to become engineers.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11656
  • Country: us
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1387 on: September 10, 2019, 12:56:24 am »
once a person attains a sufficient amount of wealth it becomes self sustaining at the expense of everyone else.
Care to elaborate?  Are you thinking "zero-sum game" or "outsized influence" or something else?

some concepts like insurance for example are inherently socialist.
 
I thought these were inherently voluntary, at least until it becomes mandatory, with guaranteed coverage for non-payers.  This is probably a good idea in some cases, but it is far from "inherent".

As for the original topic, I am getting tired of being excoriated here because so few women choose to become engineers.

The fact that wages for the middle class have been stagnant for decades while the wealth of the top few percent has increased dramatically ought to illustrate this. Once someone has enough money, that money can be used to generate more money. With sufficient wealth you can buy power and influence, witness our corrupt politicians, most of which are bought and paid for.

With insurance everyone participating pays in and then at least in theory from that pool it pays out as needed to those who need it.
 

Offline alank2

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2004
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1388 on: September 10, 2019, 01:08:10 am »
With insurance everyone participating pays in and then at least in theory from that pool it pays out as needed to those who need it.

You pay a fee in case something happens, if the something happens, you get paid for it.  You choose to purchase it and who from.  Sure they make a profit by only having to pay under a small amount of conditions with a large amount of customers, but this is not socialism.  Socialism takes from group A offering them no service in return and not because group A opted in, but because group A was forced against their will.

Regarding the wages, what is wrong is an unfair system.  Everyone should pay based on what they purchase and not their income.  There should be no loopholes to getting out of paying.  You want a pricy yacht, then you pay the tax for it!  Capitalism does require regulation in some areas, but should be free market in others.  An employer should be free to say that an employee is no longer working out and an employee should be free to leave and move on to another job if they are not happy.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 01:11:06 am by alank2 »
 

Offline fourfathom

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 304
  • Country: us
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1389 on: September 10, 2019, 01:12:06 am »
once a person attains a sufficient amount of wealth it becomes self sustaining at the expense of everyone else.
Care to elaborate?  Are you thinking "zero-sum game" or "outsized influence" or something else?

some concepts like insurance for example are inherently socialist.
 
I thought these were inherently voluntary, at least until it becomes mandatory, with guaranteed coverage for non-payers.  This is probably a good idea in some cases, but it is far from "inherent".

As for the original topic, I am getting tired of being excoriated here because so few women choose to become engineers.

The fact that wages for the middle class have been stagnant for decades while the wealth of the top few percent has increased dramatically ought to illustrate this. Once someone has enough money, that money can be used to generate more money. With sufficient wealth you can buy power and influence, witness our corrupt politicians, most of which are bought and paid for.

OK, we're talking corruption, enabled by wealth.  Not quite the same thing, but in practice perhaps close enough.  But it's still corruption, and money isn't the only factor by a long shot.

Quote
With insurance everyone participating pays in and then at least in theory from that pool it pays out as needed to those who need it.
  By that definition many voluntary associations are based on socialism.  This seems excessively broad.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11656
  • Country: us
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1390 on: September 10, 2019, 02:49:56 am »
OK, we're talking corruption, enabled by wealth.  Not quite the same thing, but in practice perhaps close enough.  But it's still corruption, and money isn't the only factor by a long shot.

That's a small tangent cherry picked out of a much broader statement I made. Wealth has become HUGELY concentrated, I don't think most people even grasp the degree to which this has occurred because the numbers are bigger than most people are used to dealing with. Wealth of the vast majority has been stagnant, not just poor people but the middle class, the bread & butter of every developed nations. They are exploited more and more with virtually all of the gains going to a select few at the top while everyone else is producing more than ever before yet getting less. With enough wealth comes the power and influence to maintain the status quo. Something I don't know if I'll ever understand is why so many poor people white knight the mega wealthy, for some reason a lot of poor people think they'll be rich some day. The *vast* majority of them won't.

Quote
By that definition many voluntary associations are based on socialism.  This seems excessively broad.

Sure, so what? And a typical family unit is communist, one or both parents bring in paychecks that go into a shared bank account and is then distributed as needed, children generally don't work. How did that saying go? From each according to his ability, to each according to his need or some such? Sounds pretty much like a typical suburban family to me. Communism works for things like communes, the problem is it doesn't scale up to anything where all members do not have a vested interest in each others well being. It's not the way to run a country IMO.

But this is getting way off topic for this thread.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11656
  • Country: us
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1391 on: September 10, 2019, 02:51:36 am »
OK, we're talking corruption, enabled by wealth.  Not quite the same thing, but in practice perhaps close enough.  But it's still corruption, and money isn't the only factor by a long shot.

That's a small tangent cherry picked out of a much broader statement I made. Wealth has become HUGELY concentrated, I don't think most people even grasp the degree to which this has occurred because the numbers are bigger than most people are used to dealing with. Wealth of the vast majority has been stagnant, not just poor people but the middle class, the bread & butter of every developed nations. They are exploited more and more with virtually all of the gains going to a select few at the top while everyone else is producing more than ever before yet getting less. With enough wealth comes the power and influence to maintain the status quo. Something I don't know if I'll ever understand is why so many poor people white knight the mega wealthy, for some reason a lot of poor people think they'll be rich some day. The *vast* majority of them won't.

Quote
By that definition many voluntary associations are based on socialism.  This seems excessively broad.

Sure, so what? And a typical family unit is communist, one or both parents bring in paychecks that go into a shared bank account and is then distributed as needed, children generally don't work. How did that saying go? From each according to his ability, to each according to his need or some such? Sounds pretty much like a typical suburban family to me. Communism works for things like communes, the problem is it doesn't scale up to anything where all members do not have a vested interest in each others well being. It's not the way to run a country IMO, but capitalism wouldn't really be a sensible way to run a family.

But this is getting way off topic for this thread.
 

Offline tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4836
  • Country: ch
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1392 on: September 10, 2019, 03:40:26 am »
No, I have one, but people don't see it because all anyone here wants is to have their opinions confirmed.
I find your lack of self awareness amusing, if sad.
LOL.

No, I have one, but people don't see it because all anyone here wants is to have their opinions confirmed.
Couple if pages back that was what asked yourself.
So what is your point exactly then?
For the umpteenth time: my point is that one can support people WITHOUT it being dumb shit like lowering admissions standards for them. And I tried providing a successful example of this, but it was dismissed by folks misconstruing what it is and isn't.

(Yes, a few posts back, I say that we need to explore why women avoid STEM. But that wasn't the point I was making, it was an incidental comment.)

So the name-calling isn't an attempt to convince anyone, it's an expression of frustration at the enormous bull-headedness, willful ignorance, and entitlement displayed by most participants in this thread, which has become an echo chamber (hence the "circle jerk" jab). I've had a few PM conversations with other sensible people who are fed up with this stupid thread, all of whom gave up and retreated because it's so futile. So no, it's not a failed attempt to convince anyone, it's a deliberate "Fuck you, assholes. I give up.", because despite Dave's naïve belief that engineers just believe facts, no amount of level-headed arguments will convince these pricks.
No, you're completely mistaken.  What you are feeling, is cognitive dissonance caused by rationally realizing that the ideology you try to push is untenable, but are emotionally unwilling and unable to even consider the possibility of your ideology being wrong.
...
No.  Fuck you and your sick ideology.
LMAO. Man, talk about projection...

If he really works at a university you can't expect him to hold any other view.
I never said I work at a university. I said it was my alma mater. That means "the university I studied at".

FWIW, I'm actually far more liberal now than when I was at university. It's got nothing to do with education.

A level playing field is what I want, and I've said this throughout this thread. Which is why I have consistently denounced nonsense like lowering admissions requirements for some groups, or forcing equality of outcomes by enforcing quotas and the like. But I strongly believe that equality of opportunity doesn't mean the same thing as offering no help to those who need it. Help isn't the same thing. 

I don't think anyone here is talking about not offering help to those that generally need it. The examples we have been talking about on here are not about that.
But every example of "good" help also gets dismissed here as being "bad".

How about you just bugger off from this thread if you don't like it?
I was intending to (I said as much!), I just keep getting sucked in by responses addressed to me. :( Self control isn't working too well lately! :P

Us "butt-hurt misogynistic, argumentative, gaslighting, condescending, borderline incel, right-wing circle-jerkers" don't have to behave the way you want us to, or talk the way you want us to, or have the opinions you want us to.
But I do kinda feel like you all don't realize just how offensive and biased you are, and somebody needs to actually come out and say it. You claim to be open to facts and discussion, but anyone who disagrees, you all just brush off as suffering from ideological brainwashing, or uninformed, or resistant to facts, even when none of that is true.

There is a forum feature that lets you ignore threads.
Way ahead of you there, did that long ago. I just wish there were a way to hide it from the (non-personal) thread index altogether so it doesn't tempt me to click in.


Are you looking to get banned over this?
I'll make it very clear, stop the name calling.
Understood.

FYI, all you'd actually said (with smilies!) was that it "appalled" you, mocking my own wording. You hadn't given an official warning.


K, I'm outta here. I'm gonna try very hard to not even look in from now on.  :-+
 

Offline windsmurf

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • !
  • Posts: 643
  • Country: us
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1393 on: September 10, 2019, 05:27:41 am »
Quote
That said, it is likely that on average, there's a slight difference.  That difference is more likely to be multiplied/enhanced by cultural biases. 

Once again, the Scandanavian results say otherwise. The more egalitarian a society becomes (that means when these biases LOWERED), the LESS women participate in STEM, particularly engineering, not MORE. It's the exact opposite of what the "cultural biases" hypothesis predicts.

Egalitarian does not equate to lack of cultural bias.  In fact, cultural bias is amplified in egalitarian Nordic societies, because people have more freedom to do what the culture dictates.  There's less economic pressure on girls to be breadwinners, so they fall back to societal expectations.

There's good argument that indicate women's career progress in STEM is stifled in egalitarian societies.
https://capx.co/what-jordan-peterson-gets-wrong-about-the-nordic-gender-paradox/



 

Offline windsmurf

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • !
  • Posts: 643
  • Country: us
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1394 on: September 10, 2019, 06:01:22 am »
...
This is the problem with socialism - it is THEFT of what one person has honestly worked for to give it to another person who has not, based on someone's notion that there is a more deserving class than the person who worked in the first place.
...

Here's the Libertarian Anarchist's argument against socialism:
Social Security is theft; we should all stop paying into this socialist pyramid scheme that only benefit a portion of society.  Police and Fire dept?  I don't need them, why should I pay for them my taxes?  I'll get my own security force together, and I'll also carry weapons purchased with the taxes I saved.  And I already have a fire extinguisher. 
Medicare?  More theft! 


My argument is that socialism is not theft.  All societies have some form of socialism.  If it benefits society and it improves society, then it benefits me. 
The debate is about how much socialism is best.   




 

Offline windsmurf

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • !
  • Posts: 643
  • Country: us
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1395 on: September 10, 2019, 07:02:21 am »
A whole population of people should not be judged by their average.  They should all be considered individually for their unique talents. 
That said, it is likely that on average, there's a slight difference.  That difference is more likely to be multiplied/enhanced by cultural biases.
I think I have already said it once but I will say it again: if you are an individualist, with some actually productive education and a job, you are an exception, not the norm.
Most of "social progress" today is done by people very unlike you and massive collectivists who care mainly about numbers and appearances.

I don't think my views are an exception... I'd label it progressive more so than individualistic. 
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/technology/silicon-valley-politics.html

Oh I'm not a "Tech-elite" nor do I live in the Silicon Valley, but I'd probably fit right in politically at places like Google.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 07:08:31 am by windsmurf »
 

Offline windsmurf

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • !
  • Posts: 643
  • Country: us
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1396 on: September 10, 2019, 07:20:18 am »
...
The fact that wages for the middle class have been stagnant for decades while the wealth of the top few percent has increased dramatically ought to illustrate this. Once someone has enough money, that money can be used to generate more money. With sufficient wealth you can buy power and influence, witness our corrupt politicians, most of which are bought and paid for.
...

A good video which illustrates your point


Trump is also "bought and paid for" by the top 0.1% to fool everyone with a false narrative of blaming immigrants and Islam for the problems of the stagnant middle-class.  Many countries in Europe are also starting to fall into the hands of similar demagogues.



« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 07:22:04 am by windsmurf »
 

Online John B

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 289
  • Country: au
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1397 on: September 10, 2019, 08:26:32 am »

Egalitarian does not equate to lack of cultural bias.  In fact, cultural bias is amplified in egalitarian Nordic societies, because people have more freedom to do what the culture dictates. 

 

Online magic

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1947
  • Country: pl
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1398 on: September 10, 2019, 08:27:56 am »
Quote from: windsmurf link=topic=127178.msg267782 :horse:1#msg2677821 date=1568093261
Egalitarian does not equate to lack of cultural bias.  In fact, cultural bias is amplified in egalitarian Nordic societies, because people have more freedom to do what the culture dictates.  There's less economic pressure on girls to be breadwinners, so they fall back to societal expectations.

There's good argument that indicate women's career progress in STEM is stifled in egalitarian societies.
https://capx.co/what-jordan-peterson-gets-wrong-about-the-nordic-gender-paradox/
So Sweden spent decades building up socialism to equalize women and now will spend decades tearing it down to equalize women :horse:
Feminists spent decades building women's sports, and then fighting for the right of men to call themselves women, and now they want them out.
Spent decades fighting Christianity, only to conclude that it actually is "empowering" for women to choose to become slaves to Islam.

Progressives are always chasing their tail and fail to answer one fundamental question: why should I care or pay for any of it.

And I disagree with the distinction between "progressives" and "egalitarianism". The core and the fundamental motivation of "social progress" is egalitarian fundamentalism. You will never stop until all "groups" are the same. Somebody will always find a way to blame any difference on oppression. You will keep saying that "slight gender differences exist", but there will never be a question whether it should be 45% or 49% of women. It's gonna be at least 51%, just to be sure :P

And a nitpick from the article:
Quote
Girls can be raised to become self-confident leaders, Lööf said.
Yes, like Hillary Clinton. Who then proceeded to write a whole book ranting that the world isn't ready for female leaders yet because it's too irrational and conflicted and women are intimidated by male conflicts and violence and incapable of influencing irrational males. But that's nothing to do with gender differences ;)
Believe it or not, I have actually read "What Happened" :palm:

I don't think my views are an exception... I'd label it progressive more so than individualistic.
Fine, my mistake.
I'd probably fit right in politically at places like Google.
Yes, I'm afraid :D
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31212
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1399 on: September 10, 2019, 08:40:10 am »
But this is getting way off topic for this thread.

This is way off-topic for this thread, please stop it.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf