Author Topic: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.  (Read 110517 times)

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Offline windsmurf

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1350 on: September 09, 2019, 04:03:59 am »
Or they argue that this wouldn't be the case if society hadn't forced little girls to play with dolls, while encouraging little boys to play with toy trucks.  You know, traditional gender roles being enforced by an oppressive patriarchal hierarchy.  There is probably *some* truth in that, but I don't know how much. I still believe there is a very significant biological difference that influences women's choices and attitudes in life, probably caused by the fact that females are designed to bear the children of the species.  Obviously I can't prove any of this.

Thought experiment:
Does anyone with a functioning (non ideologically possessed) brain think that men (on average) have the same intrinsic feeling towards child and human care that women do? And that it's just a social factor enforced by an oppressive patriarchal hierarchy or whatever?
...

I think there is a whole range of variability in feeling among different women about child and human care, as there are with men.  Not all men are the same, nor are women.  I also know that women who don't want children, don't like children and don't like to care for anyone, are thought more negatively than men who feel the same way. 

Additionally, men who don't like sports, "things" and would rather care for children, are often viewed in a negative light. 
I think people should be free to choose what their heart desires without having society's biased expectations oppress them.

 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1351 on: September 09, 2019, 04:27:58 am »
I don't need to look up these terms. I know what they mean today, and I know what they meant in the past. It seems like you only know their current meanings. From the 1800s up to the 1970s a computer science course covered much the same ground, and its very different from anything termed a computer science course today. A computer science course used to be something that served the needs of the human computers of its day, and only adapted very slowly to the modern world of electronic computers. That's why it changed very little until the 1970s.
Do you really? You sure? Computer science didn’t even exist as a discipline until the 1940s. So when we talk about historical computer scientists, we are necessarily retroactively applying a modern name to what they were doing. There were no computer science programs at all, anywhere, until 1953. So you can’t talk about a comp sci program from the 1800s at all. It was, plain and simply, done as a branch of mathematics.

With that in mind, I believe your entire arguments about human computers are likely to be very incorrect. Yes, human computers existed. Yes, they were mostly women. But they weren’t computer scientists, and they’re not what computer historians are talking about when comparing historical rates of women in IT.
Try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_computer_science. Computer science is a term with a long history. Because it was something of a niche before the age of electronic computers, many universities made computer science studies a part of another department - typically statistics (probably because statistics was a major use of human computation) or maths.
Uh, yeah, that was kinda my point. The term “computer science” didn’t exist, and certainly when we apply it retroactively, we aren’t talking about human computers. How many times do I have to spell this out for you?!
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1352 on: September 09, 2019, 04:30:41 am »
Contrary to what Tooki thinks this thread is about, it's really a monument to the backlash of the practical pointlessless of the infestation of gender politics into society, and in our case, engineering.
What the thread is about has nothing to do with what it’s become. And indeed it can be both at the same time, and it is.

Just like a person can be an engineer and a misogynistic asshole at the same time, without implying that the terms are synonyms.


And it proves precisely why gender politics aren’t pointless, even if so many of the real-world implementations are deeply flawed. But poor implementation does not prove that the underlying problem is unreal.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 04:32:27 am by tooki »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1353 on: September 09, 2019, 04:51:15 am »
Or they argue that this wouldn't be the case if society hadn't forced little girls to play with dolls, while encouraging little boys to play with toy trucks.  You know, traditional gender roles being enforced by an oppressive patriarchal hierarchy.  There is probably *some* truth in that, but I don't know how much. I still believe there is a very significant biological difference that influences women's choices and attitudes in life, probably caused by the fact that females are designed to bear the children of the species.  Obviously I can't prove any of this.

Thought experiment:
Does anyone with a functioning (non ideologically possessed) brain think that men (on average) have the same intrinsic feeling towards child and human care that women do? And that it's just a social factor enforced by an oppressive patriarchal hierarchy or whatever?
...

I think there is a whole range of variability in feeling among different women about child and human care, as there are with men.  Not all men are the same, nor are women.

Err, let me highlight it for you above in bold.

Quote
I think people should be free to choose what their heart desires without having society's biased expectations oppress them.

I'm sure red headed people would agree.
I'm sure short people would agree.
I'm sure black people would agree.
I'm sure asian people would agree.
I'm sure pimply faced pasty white male teens would agree.
I'm sure people with *insert disability would agree.
I'm sure people with *insert medical condition here* would agree.
I'm sure you can see where I'm going here...
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 04:52:46 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1354 on: September 09, 2019, 04:57:15 am »
And it proves precisely why gender politics aren’t pointless, even if so many of the real-world implementations are deeply flawed. But poor implementation does not prove that the underlying problem is unreal.

And all the kicking and screaming doesn't prove that the underlying problem is actually an underlying problem that needs solving.
Why is the lack of women in plumbing not a problem?
Why is the lack of men in child care centres not a problem?
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1355 on: September 09, 2019, 05:45:10 am »
And all the kicking and screaming doesn't prove that the underlying problem is actually an underlying problem that needs solving.
Why is the lack of women in plumbing not a problem?
Why is the lack of men in child care centres not a problem?
Just because you haven't looked for examples of people saying that it is a problem doesn't mean that nobody is saying it. I know for a fact that the child care industry desperately wants more men to participate.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1356 on: September 09, 2019, 06:01:00 am »
And all the kicking and screaming doesn't prove that the underlying problem is actually an underlying problem that needs solving.
Why is the lack of women in plumbing not a problem?
Why is the lack of men in child care centres not a problem?
Just because you haven't looked for examples of people saying that it is a problem doesn't mean that nobody is saying it. I know for a fact that the child care industry desperately wants more men to participate.

I'm surprised the feminists haven't taken issue with the slogan title "Strong guys for strong kids" for this program:
https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/germany-efforts-to-recruit-men-in-child-care-fall-short-a-854311.html
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 06:38:54 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline fourfathom

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1357 on: September 09, 2019, 06:02:14 am »
I know for a fact that the child care industry desperately wants more men to participate.

And what are we going to do about this terrible injustice?  Do you think that this is because men are being discouraged from entering the field?  Or that they find it unwelcoming?
 

Offline windsmurf

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1358 on: September 09, 2019, 06:09:28 am »
Or they argue that this wouldn't be the case if society hadn't forced little girls to play with dolls, while encouraging little boys to play with toy trucks.  You know, traditional gender roles being enforced by an oppressive patriarchal hierarchy.  There is probably *some* truth in that, but I don't know how much. I still believe there is a very significant biological difference that influences women's choices and attitudes in life, probably caused by the fact that females are designed to bear the children of the species.  Obviously I can't prove any of this.

Thought experiment:
Does anyone with a functioning (non ideologically possessed) brain think that men (on average) have the same intrinsic feeling towards child and human care that women do? And that it's just a social factor enforced by an oppressive patriarchal hierarchy or whatever?
...

I think there is a whole range of variability in feeling among different women about child and human care, as there are with men.  Not all men are the same, nor are women.

Err, let me highlight it for you above in bold.

A whole population of people should not be judged by their average.  They should all be considered individually for their unique talents. 
That said, it is likely that on average, there's a slight difference.  That difference is more likely to be multiplied/enhanced by cultural biases. 

Quote
Quote
I think people should be free to choose what their heart desires without having society's biased expectations oppress them.

I'm sure red headed people would agree.
I'm sure short people would agree.
I'm sure black people would agree.
I'm sure asian people would agree.
I'm sure pimply faced pasty white male teens would agree.
I'm sure people with *insert disability would agree.
I'm sure people with *insert medical condition here* would agree.
I'm sure you can see where I'm going here...

I see where you're going but I don't see the point.    Is it that there are lot of people who discriminate against short people black people etc. so we should just live with it?  Not to fight it?

 

Offline windsmurf

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1359 on: September 09, 2019, 06:15:42 am »
I know for a fact that the child care industry desperately wants more men to participate.

And what are we going to do about this terrible injustice?  Do you think that this is because men are being discouraged from entering the field?  Or that they find it unwelcoming?

Yes they are discouraged by society from entering the field.  There's a lot of social and even professional stigma attached to men being nurses, caregivers, etc.
It's not a "terrible injustice" but its something that can be improved.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1360 on: September 09, 2019, 06:54:56 am »
A whole population of people should not be judged by their average.  They should all be considered individually for their unique talents. 

Sure, but the average can tell you quite valuable things. Also, often it's the extreme edges of the distribution that are the most telling and where the gender differences really get magnified.

Quote
That said, it is likely that on average, there's a slight difference.  That difference is more likely to be multiplied/enhanced by cultural biases. 

Once again, the Scandanavian results say otherwise. The more egalitarian a society becomes (that means when these biases LOWERED), the LESS women participate in STEM, particularly engineering, not MORE. It's the exact opposite of what the "cultural biases" hypothesis predicts.
 

Offline magic

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1361 on: September 09, 2019, 08:28:16 am »
That doesn't mean giving preferential treatment to anyone, which was literally my entire point.
False.
You’re saying I don’t know what my own point was? Uhh, no, babe.
No babe, I'm saying we both know what your point is and that your point is wrong ;)
You can of course keep ignoring the quotes I posted and pretend that their underlying goal is countering poverty and social pathology rather than bumping their diversity numbers for the sake of number or maybe for the sake of proving something about egalitarianism.
I will nevertheless keep my own opinion, on the basis of what I quoted and similar attitudes seen everywhere in those "social justice" circles.

This thread is a monument to why women avoid STEM: if I were a woman, I wouldn’t want to work with any of you. (And as a man, I wouldn’t want to work with you either, for that matter.)
Dunno, I knew a number of women who were doing fine. Even right-wing, condescending and gaslighting borderline inceIs like me were getting along with them.
Maybe you meant radical feminists (of both genders)? But frankly, many of them are actually attracted to the drama. ;)

From the 1800s up to the 1970s a computer science course covered much the same ground, and its very different from anything termed a computer science course today. A computer science course used to be something that served the needs of the human computers of its day, and only adapted very slowly to the modern world of electronic computers.
19th century? First time I hear about anything like that.

Just because you haven't looked for examples of people saying that it is a problem doesn't mean that nobody is saying it. I know for a fact that the child care industry desperately wants more men to participate.
You mean, some feminists somewhere want men in childcare for the sake of proving a point?
Other examples? ;)

I'm surprised the feminists haven't taken issue with the slogan title "Strong guys for strong kids" for this program:
https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/germany-efforts-to-recruit-men-in-child-care-fall-short-a-854311.html
It's all about egalitarian fundamentalism.
The end goal is proving that no difference may possibly exists between any discernible "groups" and sticking the finger to the ghost of Hitler which is believed to still lurk with us.
So for practical reasons, they first need to shove men into the industry and only then will brainwashing commence ;)
 

Offline magic

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1362 on: September 09, 2019, 09:08:09 am »
A whole population of people should not be judged by their average.  They should all be considered individually for their unique talents. 
That said, it is likely that on average, there's a slight difference.  That difference is more likely to be multiplied/enhanced by cultural biases.
I think I have already said it once but I will say it again: if you are an individualist, with some actually productive education and a job, you are an exception, not the norm.
Most of "social progress" today is done by people very unlike you and massive collectivists who care mainly about numbers and appearances.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1363 on: September 09, 2019, 11:01:55 am »

Here's a little primer for you: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/02/19/women-built-tech-industry-then-they-were-pushed-out/

The author is a Gender Studies alumnus. Or should that be alumna?

In my experience of hiring, as I have mentioned at least once in this thread, we are falling over ourselves to get women in. Unlike males, females are pretty much guaranteed a face-to-face interview. This isn't by any HR cajoling, it is because we genuinely see the imbalance and want to address it, but that doesn't get away from the fact that the candidate has to be properly qualified in both hard and soft skills.

In one place I hire at quite frequently, HR introduced a policy of always placing a woman on the interviewing panel, in an effort to tackle all the supposed bias. The team I hire for is indeed 93% male, and 62% from ethnic minorities. Of course, there is no concern that ethnic minorities are over-represented, nor should there be, when all are hired based on merit.

Like it or not, it is a fact that having a CV/resume through from a woman is the exception. That alone is by far the biggest reason for the disparity.

Quote
But no, on the contrary, I am appalled at the butt-hurt misogynistic, argumentative, gaslighting, condescending, borderline incel, right-wing circle-jerk that it continues to be. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves for the way you talk about pretty much everything in here.

How is wanting a level playing field for everyone (i.e., equality of opportunity and merit-based systems) misogynistic, gaslighting, condescending, borderline incel, right-wing circle jerk? Respecfully, you've fallen into the trap of throwing ad hominems rather than addressing your case.

« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 11:06:56 am by Howardlong »
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1364 on: September 09, 2019, 11:15:47 am »
In my experience of hiring, as I have mentioned at least once in this thread, we are falling over ourselves to get women in. Unlike males, females are pretty much guaranteed a face-to-face interview. This isn't by any HR cajoling, it is because we genuinely see the imbalance and want to address it, but that doesn't get away from the fact that the candidate has to be properly qualified in both hard and soft skills.

Same in my experience.
And I've even done it myself quite a few times. When I'm flicking through hundreds of resumes (always 99.x% male), a female is usually going to get the "I'll give her a go" tick and it goes in the shortlisted interview pile (unless the resume is really obviously bad).
Females get several advantages like that.
Want to get into a startup accelerator? Being female sure helps: https://www.shestarts.com/
 

Offline coppice

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1365 on: September 09, 2019, 11:25:53 am »
In my experience of hiring, as I have mentioned at least once in this thread, we are falling over ourselves to get women in. Unlike males, females are pretty much guaranteed a face-to-face interview. This isn't by any HR cajoling, it is because we genuinely see the imbalance and want to address it, but that doesn't get away from the fact that the candidate has to be properly qualified in both hard and soft skills.
That sounds quite high minded, but I think the reality of women almost always getting an interview has more to do with novelty value. When you've worked your way through piles of CVs and finally come across a female applicant you are predisposed to call them for interview out of pure novelty, regardless of other factors. Female applications for electronics jobs are so rare that that an engineer finding their CV will will show it around to other people in the company. Quite often you don't even need to hunt through the pile of CVs. HR will pick them out for you, and highlight them, as they do with other "unusual" CVs. If she's an RF engineer and a digital engineer is needed she's a poor fit, but maybe someone else will see the CV and say "oh, we have a post coming up for someone like her", and she still gets an interview.

Women don't just get interviews, though. People are biased towards making them offers, and that probably has more to do with a desire to make the place less of a monoculture.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1366 on: September 09, 2019, 11:42:05 am »
I don't need to look up these terms. I know what they mean today, and I know what they meant in the past. It seems like you only know their current meanings. From the 1800s up to the 1970s a computer science course covered much the same ground, and its very different from anything termed a computer science course today. A computer science course used to be something that served the needs of the human computers of its day, and only adapted very slowly to the modern world of electronic computers. That's why it changed very little until the 1970s.
Do you really? You sure? Computer science didn’t even exist as a discipline until the 1940s. So when we talk about historical computer scientists, we are necessarily retroactively applying a modern name to what they were doing. There were no computer science programs at all, anywhere, until 1953. So you can’t talk about a comp sci program from the 1800s at all. It was, plain and simply, done as a branch of mathematics.

With that in mind, I believe your entire arguments about human computers are likely to be very incorrect. Yes, human computers existed. Yes, they were mostly women. But they weren’t computer scientists, and they’re not what computer historians are talking about when comparing historical rates of women in IT.
Try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_computer_science. Computer science is a term with a long history. Because it was something of a niche before the age of electronic computers, many universities made computer science studies a part of another department - typically statistics (probably because statistics was a major use of human computation) or maths.
Uh, yeah, that was kinda my point. The term “computer science” didn’t exist, and certainly when we apply it retroactively, we aren’t talking about human computers. How many times do I have to spell this out for you?!
That Wikipedia page begins "The history of computer science began long before our modern discipline of computer science, usually appearing in forms like mathematics or physics. ". There is a modern notion of the term computer science, and an older one that focussed on developing techniques to make human computers more productive - methods to speed up calculations, methods to reduce the amount of calculation, methods to determine the minimum amount of sampling needed to achieve a result within tolerance, etc. Gauss did quite a bit of work in this area, such as developing the FFT algorithm (and then letting it fall into obscurity). I believe  Kotelnikov and Whittaker both independently derived the sampling theorem before Shannon, as part of their work minimising the human computation needed for statistical work. When I was at college in the early 70s the Computer Science people were in the Statistics department, where they have been for a very long time. It was being renamed Statistics and Computer Science around that time. People used to bait them by trying to talk to them about electronic computers, when they had no interest in such things. They got really annoyed that people had such a narrow view of what computing and computer were.
 

Offline alank2

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1367 on: September 09, 2019, 11:49:36 am »
Reverse discrimination is still discrimination.  SJW's are too young to understand their foolishness.  They have no investment in anything but themselves and "their" ideas despite their claims to the otherwise.  If a woman is equal, then she should need no special treatment, but if she needs special treatment, then she is not equal.  That isn't the environment we live in today however, we live in an environment that gives women every break and every opportunity at the expense of men all in the guise of fairness, but it is not fair at all.  There was a study about women and marriage and how there are no marriageable men for them any longer - it turns out that they both want to be equal and make the same amount and yet want a husband who makes 57% more and can provide for them at the same time.  Ultimately we cannot get away from the constraints and design of who each of us are.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1368 on: September 09, 2019, 11:52:39 am »
Here some numbers from 2004, I don't think much has changed.
I wonder why now suddenly there is a need to artificially change this.
There are even jobs with practically 0% woman I don't hear them talking about changing that (bricklayer, central heating installer, car mechanic)
Just as there are jobs with 0% man (mainly secretarie roles).

Interestingly the article states:
Quote
In the top ten with a balanced gender distribution in 2004, there were four occupations at medium level against one at elementary level (packer).
Balanced gender distribution mainly applies to higher-level professions.


https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2005/47/top-ten-male-and-female-dominated-occupations
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1369 on: September 09, 2019, 02:37:13 pm »
If she's an RF engineer and a digital engineer

She's hired!

(sorry for the out of context quote, that was the initial way I read it! A sadly rare scenario and combination indeed).
 

Offline coppice

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1370 on: September 09, 2019, 02:48:34 pm »
If she's an RF engineer and a digital engineer

She's hired!

(sorry for the out of context quote, that was the initial way I read it! A sadly rare scenario and combination indeed).
With that kind of quoting ability, have you considered a career in journalism?  :)
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1371 on: September 09, 2019, 03:17:52 pm »
You can of course keep ignoring the quotes I posted and pretend that their underlying goal is countering poverty and social pathology rather than bumping their diversity numbers for the sake of number or maybe for the sake of proving something about egalitarianism.
I'm glad I'm no so jaded as to think that everyone only does thing for selfish reasons. Did it ever occur to you that there are people who actually do have altruistic, socially-focused goals? In the case of my university, I know for a fact that the university president does it because of genuine humanitarian desires. (As in, I've actually talked to him about it, in person.) Numbers are a way to know how you're doing, but they need not be the goal in and of themselves.


How is wanting a level playing field for everyone (i.e., equality of opportunity and merit-based systems) misogynistic, gaslighting, condescending, borderline incel, right-wing circle jerk?
A level playing field is what I want, and I've said this throughout this thread. Which is why I have consistently denounced nonsense like lowering admissions requirements for some groups, or forcing equality of outcomes by enforcing quotas and the like. But I strongly believe that equality of opportunity doesn't mean the same thing as offering no help to those who need it. Help isn't the same thing. 

This image sums it up:



For example, I was fortunate in having the opportunity to go to university easily, in that my whole childhood, my parents supported my areas of interest, were able to do things like help with homework, and were able to pay for university. If I'd grown up with a family that didn't do those things, it would have affected my opportunity to successfully complete university, even if my desire had been the same.


Respecfully, you've fallen into the trap of throwing ad hominems rather than addressing your case.
Oh, no, I haven't fallen into any trap (as in, it's not accidental). I have tried addressing my case at length in this thread (we're talking since the beginning of the thread), and each time, I get gaslighted, accused of saying things I didn't say, derailed, and otherwise dismissed, among other things.

So the name-calling isn't an attempt to convince anyone, it's an expression of frustration at the enormous bull-headedness, willful ignorance, and entitlement displayed by most participants in this thread, which has become an echo chamber (hence the "circle jerk" jab). I've had a few PM conversations with other sensible people who are fed up with this stupid thread, all of whom gave up and retreated because it's so futile. So no, it's not a failed attempt to convince anyone, it's a deliberate "Fuck you, assholes. I give up.", because despite Dave's naïve belief that engineers just believe facts, no amount of level-headed arguments will convince these pricks.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1372 on: September 09, 2019, 03:49:59 pm »
In my experience of hiring, as I have mentioned at least once in this thread, we are falling over ourselves to get women in. Unlike males, females are pretty much guaranteed a face-to-face interview. This isn't by any HR cajoling, it is because we genuinely see the imbalance and want to address it, but that doesn't get away from the fact that the candidate has to be properly qualified in both hard and soft skills.

Same in my experience.
And I've even done it myself quite a few times. When I'm flicking through hundreds of resumes (always 99.x% male), a female is usually going to get the "I'll give her a go" tick and it goes in the shortlisted interview pile (unless the resume is really obviously bad).
Females get several advantages like that.
Want to get into a startup accelerator? Being female sure helps: https://www.shestarts.com/

That mirrors my own experience. A pile of resumes, almost all from men and then occasionally a rare one from a woman, it definitely catches my attention. As I've said before, most males enjoy being around women, we'd jump at an opportunity to shift our workplaces away from the stereotypical sausage fest they so often are. But not at the expense of actively discriminating against more qualified applicants because first and foremost the job needs to get done.
 

Offline alank2

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1373 on: September 09, 2019, 04:33:28 pm »


This picture leaves an important detail and distinction out.  How did you get from the left to the right side?

If the three befriend each other and treat each other with respect, the man might have had the *opportunity* to choose to give his box to the girl of his own free will, have been able to give a gift, and her being able to graciously receive a gift of his box.  Likewise, both the man and the girl could choose to work their job an extra Saturday to make enough money to pay for a ramp for their handicapped friend.

On the other hand, if the government drops by and takes the man's box and gives it to the girl, and then forced both of them to write a check to pay for the ramp, then they have been STOLEN from.  Then they have to work an extra Saturday to meet their responsibilities and pay their bills.  No opportunity for kindness, no opportunity to encourage the right thing, just "you owe me" and "mine" for something that was not yours.

This is the problem with socialism - it is THEFT of what one person has honestly worked for to give it to another person who has not, based on someone's notion that there is a more deserving class than the person who worked in the first place.  This is the very definition of discrimination and treating people unfairly.  It also divides people against each other instead of giving them an opportunity to choose to do what is right with what belongs to them.  Social justice warriors can stop worrying about other people's money and put their money where their mouth is.  Get a job, work hard, and then give to others to help them.  I give to a couple of organizations that help people by choice, because i want to do the right thing and help people.  It is wrong of the government or anyone else to take from me without my discretion what is mine and redistribute it.  It takes from my ability to choose to do good with that was mine.  Will some people not do what is right?  Sure.  But taking what is theirs is still THEFT.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 04:46:34 pm by alank2 »
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1374 on: September 09, 2019, 04:34:48 pm »
So the name-calling isn't an attempt to convince anyone, it's an expression of frustration
Very weak and totally unneccesary or called for IMO.
You are playing Don Quichote but noones understands your point, perhaps because you have none.

What you want is an explanation why not more women choose a certain specific area of STEM study. Right?
Go find that explanation then, ask where you can get an answer, on some forum where many women are, not on an engineers forum where valid proven arguments are required which are impossible to get from a gamma study as social psychology.

 


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