Author Topic: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.  (Read 80451 times)

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Online coppice

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1675 on: October 19, 2019, 10:36:23 pm »
The thing that makes me :o is that the CoC proponents openly admit they are against meritocracy.
What exactly do you expect people of little merit to do?
 

Offline windsmurf

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1676 on: October 20, 2019, 01:12:11 am »
Most are not asking for any "special privilege", rather they're asking to be treated with due regard for their feelings, wishes, or rights.

No one has to give a rats arse about your feelings or your wishes, and no point getting upset if someone doesn't do that, it's their choice.
Your rights are enshrined in law. If you think you are lacking rights, then petition the government to change them.

Quote
I don't think its rude for anyone to ask for that.  Demand may not be the right word for it, but when their feelings, wishes, or rights have been disregarded for so long, perhaps they have justification to demand it.

Going around demanding stuff from people is a sure fire way to get yourself told to bugger off. You can't demand that people be nice to you, or say what you want them to say, or think what you want them to think, or act the way you want them to act.

Those sound like an arguments condoning racism. 
 
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Offline windsmurf

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1677 on: October 20, 2019, 01:18:48 am »
BTW I know of no one except progressive politicians who are making any money off of these "movements"... who are these people that are supposedly making a living pushing for the goals and what are these goals?  Only people I know involved in these movements are volunteers and donors.  Perhaps its different in the UK.

Wow, what planet are you living on?
It's now a huge enough market that almost every university in the western world offers these useless degree course in it:
Here is a list of gender studies degrees worldwide:
https://userpages.umbc.edu/~korenman/wmst/programs.html
All these people are being indoctrinated with SJW views they then take onto top positions as "diversity officers" etc at all the leading companies.
These graduates are unemployable in any other role than some diversity/gender/grievance position.
I honestly can't think of a more worthless degree, what a waste of time and money.
When this SJW employment gravy train finally ends, these people will regret it big time.

I'll use your words from:
...Your rights are enshrined in law. If you think you are lacking rights, then petition the government to change them...

If you think your universities, government, corporations are misspending their resources on gender education, petition them to have them removed.
Have you actually taken any courses in gender studies or read any book on the topic?

 
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Offline windsmurf

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1678 on: October 20, 2019, 01:20:04 am »
Progressive Liberals are not about righting grievances.  We are about improving the human condition, so that we all have equal opportunity to live a happy, fulfilling life.  Righting grievances are only a subset of the work we see ahead

Wait - I'm confused.  Are progressive liberals about righting grievances, or not?

-Pat

Progressive Liberals are not ONLY about righting grievances.  We are about improving the human condition, so that we all have equal opportunity to live a happy, fulfilling life.  Righting grievances are only a subset of the work we see ahead.


 

 

Offline Cubdriver

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1679 on: October 20, 2019, 01:21:15 am »
Most are not asking for any "special privilege", rather they're asking to be treated with due regard for their feelings, wishes, or rights.

No one has to give a rats arse about your feelings or your wishes, and no point getting upset if someone doesn't do that, it's their choice.
Your rights are enshrined in law. If you think you are lacking rights, then petition the government to change them.

Quote
I don't think its rude for anyone to ask for that.  Demand may not be the right word for it, but when their feelings, wishes, or rights have been disregarded for so long, perhaps they have justification to demand it.

Going around demanding stuff from people is a sure fire way to get yourself told to bugger off. You can't demand that people be nice to you, or say what you want them to say, or think what you want them to think, or act the way you want them to act.

Those sound like an arguments condoning racism.

How so?  I see nothing condoning racism in what Dave said.  There are far too many people in the world today who go around LOOKING to take offence to any and everything.

-Pat
If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway...
 
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Offline windsmurf

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1680 on: October 20, 2019, 01:27:28 am »
Quote
BTW I know of no one except progressive politicians who are making any money off of these "movements"... who are these people that are supposedly making a living pushing for the goals and what are these goals?  Only people I know involved in these movements are volunteers and donors.  Perhaps its different in the UK.
https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/diversity-manager-jobs?position=1&pageNum=0
Anything to add? There's a whole position who's job it is to fix imaginary problems invented by grievance studies.

Companies would not create these jobs if people didn't think this was a valuable position.  I don't think it has anything to do with "movements"... it has to do with value. 
 

Offline windsmurf

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1681 on: October 20, 2019, 01:28:54 am »
And, not everyone supporting gender equality are about giving women extra rights.   E.g. I'm against any sort of quotas.  But I am for educating people to understand any difficulties women face in male-dominant fields like Engineering, and fostering a culture which is not threatening to them.
There is no engineering culture threatening women. Its the grievance people who threaten women, telling them how awful it is to be in engineering.

And how hopeless and/or oppressed they are that they need a special lowered admission requirement to university engineering degrees.

I disagree with lowered admission standards.  If it needs to be lowered, it should be lowered for everyone. 
 

Online coppice

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1682 on: October 20, 2019, 01:40:10 am »
Progressive Liberals are not about righting grievances.  We are about improving the human condition, so that we all have equal opportunity to live a happy, fulfilling life.  Righting grievances are only a subset of the work we see ahead

Wait - I'm confused.  Are progressive liberals about righting grievances, or not?

-Pat

Progressive Liberals are not ONLY about righting grievances.  We are about improving the human condition, so that we all have equal opportunity to live a happy, fulfilling life.  Righting grievances are only a subset of the work we see ahead.
Were you being dishonest when you said "Progressive Liberals are not about righting grievances." or are you being dishonest now? Why are you so dishonest as to call yourself liberal, anyway? You are as authoritarian as any movement we've seen. You are just using a deceptive term that sounds more friendly. The ethos of people currently calling themselves progressive liberals has nothing to do with being liberal, in either the political or the social sense, and the movement trying to undo the progress we've made towards a fairer society over the last half century.

 

Offline windsmurf

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1683 on: October 20, 2019, 01:50:49 am »
And, not everyone supporting gender equality are about giving women extra rights.   E.g. I'm against any sort of quotas.  But I am for educating people to understand any difficulties women face in male-dominant fields like Engineering, and fostering a culture which is not threatening to them.
There is no engineering culture threatening women. Its the grievance people who threaten women, telling them how awful it is to be in engineering.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-women-engineering-implicit-bias-1028-biz-20161027-story.html

I think this thread is the epitome of why there's a lack of women in engineering.  There's so much evidence here that women in engineering will be treated without due regard for their feelings, wishes, or rights. 
 

Offline windsmurf

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1684 on: October 20, 2019, 01:54:30 am »
Progressive Liberals are not about righting grievances.  We are about improving the human condition, so that we all have equal opportunity to live a happy, fulfilling life.  Righting grievances are only a subset of the work we see ahead

Wait - I'm confused.  Are progressive liberals about righting grievances, or not?

-Pat

Progressive Liberals are not ONLY about righting grievances.  We are about improving the human condition, so that we all have equal opportunity to live a happy, fulfilling life.  Righting grievances are only a subset of the work we see ahead.
Were you being dishonest when you said "Progressive Liberals are not about righting grievances." or are you being dishonest now?

Nope just forgot to insert 1 word.

Why are you so dishonest as to call yourself liberal, anyway? You are as authoritarian as any movement we've seen. You are just using a deceptive term that sounds more friendly. The ethos of people currently calling themselves progressive liberals has nothing to do with being liberal, in either the political or the social sense, and the movement trying to undo the progress we've made towards a fairer society over the last half century.

Please explain how I am an authoritarian, as I'm not seeing it. 
 

Online coppice

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1685 on: October 20, 2019, 02:12:17 am »
Why are you so dishonest as to call yourself liberal, anyway? You are as authoritarian as any movement we've seen. You are just using a deceptive term that sounds more friendly. The ethos of people currently calling themselves progressive liberals has nothing to do with being liberal, in either the political or the social sense, and the movement trying to undo the progress we've made towards a fairer society over the last half century.

Please explain how I am an authoritarian, as I'm not seeing it.
You keep arguing for compulsion, and you can't see how you are authoritarian? That seems like typical cult behaviour.
 

Offline John B

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1686 on: October 20, 2019, 02:17:40 am »
https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-women-engineering-implicit-bias-1028-biz-20161027-story.html

I think this thread is the epitome of why there's a lack of women in engineering.  There's so much evidence here that women in engineering will be treated without due regard for their feelings, wishes, or rights.

While I would prefer not to getting into the realms of personal attacks, by 1600+ posts in this thread it seems quite obvious that you seem to be 1) trolling to keep this thread going, and/or 2) a genuine apologist.

This is now at least the 2nd time you have referenced regards for "feelings, wishes, or rights", and I can't really believe that it's a good faith argument. You are trying to lump several things together to push and agenda. Feelings and wishes are a completely different category to rights.

You should know full well by now that the people that engage in regressive left intersectionalist ideology (ie SJWs) have an insatiable appetite for feelings and wishes.

This is no accident. You have an ideology that advertises the fact that it can be used as a weapon to satiate people's feelings. It attracts these kind of people and in turn strengthens the group.

You have an ideology that by a process of evolution, concentrates people who are primarily driven by negative emotions and some of humanity's more primitive side. ie, the desire to control other people, the desire to feel morally superior, to group people and stereotype them, and probably worst of all, the rush of power when banishing people from the in-group.
 

Online coppice

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1687 on: October 20, 2019, 02:24:59 am »
And, not everyone supporting gender equality are about giving women extra rights.   E.g. I'm against any sort of quotas.  But I am for educating people to understand any difficulties women face in male-dominant fields like Engineering, and fostering a culture which is not threatening to them.
There is no engineering culture threatening women. Its the grievance people who threaten women, telling them how awful it is to be in engineering.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-women-engineering-implicit-bias-1028-biz-20161027-story.html

I think this thread is the epitome of why there's a lack of women in engineering.  There's so much evidence here that women in engineering will be treated without due regard for their feelings, wishes, or rights.
We cannot access that web site from Europe. The whole implicit bias concept is garbage, and has been shot down by the very people who originated it as being applied in bizarre and inappropriate ways. Therefore I am not hopeful of your web site saying anything useful.

 

Offline windsmurf

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1688 on: October 20, 2019, 04:07:03 am »
Why are you so dishonest as to call yourself liberal, anyway? You are as authoritarian as any movement we've seen. You are just using a deceptive term that sounds more friendly. The ethos of people currently calling themselves progressive liberals has nothing to do with being liberal, in either the political or the social sense, and the movement trying to undo the progress we've made towards a fairer society over the last half century.

Please explain how I am an authoritarian, as I'm not seeing it.
You keep arguing for compulsion, and you can't see how you are authoritarian? That seems like typical cult behaviour.

Well, then according to your definition, any government which makes new laws compulsory are authoritarian, showing typical cult behavior.
I don't think your argument flies.

And curious, what did I say should be "compulsory"? 
 

Offline windsmurf

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1689 on: October 20, 2019, 04:11:48 am »
And, not everyone supporting gender equality are about giving women extra rights.   E.g. I'm against any sort of quotas.  But I am for educating people to understand any difficulties women face in male-dominant fields like Engineering, and fostering a culture which is not threatening to them.
There is no engineering culture threatening women. Its the grievance people who threaten women, telling them how awful it is to be in engineering.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-women-engineering-implicit-bias-1028-biz-20161027-story.html

I think this thread is the epitome of why there's a lack of women in engineering.  There's so much evidence here that women in engineering will be treated without due regard for their feelings, wishes, or rights.
We cannot access that web site from Europe. The whole implicit bias concept is garbage, and has been shot down by the very people who originated it as being applied in bizarre and inappropriate ways. Therefore I am not hopeful of your web site saying anything useful.

Women engineers describe unfriendly work environments in study
Alexia Elejalde-Ruiz
By ALEXIA ELEJALDE-RUIZ
CHICAGO TRIBUNE |
OCT 27, 2016 | 3:17 PM

One woman engineer said she was reprimanded for raising her voice, while her male colleagues yelled without consequence.

Another woman recalled male co-workers rejoicing that a new female hire would keep the lab tidy.

A mother reported that her colleagues think she's a slacker, despite the evenings and weekends she spends working to make up for time she misses because of her kids.

Authors of a new study released this week said they weren't surprised that women and people of color working in engineering report an unfriendlier workplace climate than their white male peers. But they were surprised that nearly a third of the 3,000 survey respondents left optional comments describing their personal experiences, indicating their strong reactions to the topic and offering an inside look at how implicit bias — those subconscious assumptions even egalitarian people make that can lead to unfair treatment — plays out in the engineering workplace.

Despite concerted efforts to engage girls in STEM (science, technology, engineering and math) starting in grade school and programs designed to draw women into the field in college and retain them once they are in the workforce, the industry still struggles with gender diversity, particularly in engineering.

Women represent only about 15 percent of the engineering workforce. Nearly 40 percent of female engineers leave engineering by midcareer, according to the Society of Women Engineers, which partnered with the Center for WorkLife Law at the University of California's Hastings College of Law to produce the study.

Social psychology experiments on implicit bias have shown that hiring managers — both men and women — are more likely to prefer male over female candidates for certain STEM jobs despite identical resumes. The new study explores how implicit bias molds a workplace culture in the male-dominated sector that could be driving or keeping women away.

The study points to three patterns of bias.

One, which the researchers called "prove-it-again bias," found women are nearly twice as likely as men to say they have to prove themselves repeatedly to get the same respect and recognition as their colleagues.

"Women have to look more professional and demonstrate technical prowess at all times to receive the same respect as a male engineer who is just an average engineer," one woman said in the comments. Engineers of color were even more likely to express that view.

Another pattern, dubbed "tightrope bias," describes how women must operate within a narrow range of acceptable behavior that is neither too feminine nor too masculine to avoid being branded "emotional" on the one hand or "difficult" on the other.

Women were twice as likely as white men to say they felt pressured to let others take the lead and to do office "housework" like taking notes and planning office parties. They were less likely to say they could show anger without pushback.

"It is exhausting to have to constantly fight gender roles and play the balancing act of being assertive but not bitchy, helpful but not a doormat," one female respondent said. "It is exhausting on the good days, soul-crushing on the bad days."

The third bias pattern, called "the maternal wall," refers to assumptions that the ideal worker is always available for work and that mothers do not — or should not — remain committed to their careers. Women with children were less likely than white men with children to report that having children did not change their colleagues' perceptions of their work commitment or competence.

"This new manager told me directly that I would not 'want' a promotion because it requires more responsibility, and I am a mom so I wouldn't want to travel," said one woman, describing what is called "benevolent bias" because the assumptions are based on what someone thinks is best for the other person.

Both women and men with children commented on the stigma against using flexible arrangements, and, relatedly, both men and women without children described resentment at having to pick up the slack for their colleagues with kid commitments.

Another pattern, which had weaker evidence, showed that there was tension between women. A quarter of women said they felt some other women didn't understand the level of commitment that it takes to be a successful engineer. Others said everything is fine if you assimilate into the "boys club."

"The best way to succeed is to be seen as 'one of the guys,'" one woman wrote in a comment. "Don't be offended easily or you will be avoided."

In addition to gender bias, the study showed a tougher workplace climate for engineers of color of both sexes and engineers over age 45.

Engineering is not the only field grappling with an underrepresentation of women and issues of implicit bias. But the researchers noted differences between the engineering study and another administered recently among lawyers suggesting that gender bias is a touchier subject among male engineers.

While more men in both studies expressed support for gender diversity, 17 percent of male engineers said they felt diversity efforts are threatening the quality of the profession, giving women unfair advantages, or they attacked the survey generally, compared with 4 percent of male lawyers.

The difference may reflect the high value engineers place on merit.

"This survey is a great example of why women engineers are having issues in the workplace," one male respondent wrote. "As an engineer, I don't care who I work with (male, female, ethnicity, etc.) all I expect is someone to work to the best of their abilities. … The 'poor me' attitude (as shown throughout this survey) will not help gain respect in this field, engineers by nature are results oriented."

The study was released as the Society of Women Engineers announces its second STEM Re-entry Task Force, a program that helps women and men re-enter the workforce through temporary "returnships" — internships for returning workers — after time away to care for children or other needs. Ford Motor Co., GE Power, Johnson & Johnson, Medtronic, Northrop Grumman and Schneider Electric are the companies participating in 2017.

aelejalderuiz@chicagotribune.com

Twitter @alexiaer
 

Offline rjp

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1690 on: October 20, 2019, 04:16:39 am »
If we somehow accept the theory that straight white men are toxic, yet also accept the reality that all these little groups of straight white men are self starting, self organising voluntary groups, what exactly is stopping any of these folks who feel they arent being treated the way they deserve from doing likewise ?

STEM education is available to all sexes and creeds, the internet does not stop anyone from self motivated research into any subject on the planet.

Ive been involved in heaps of small teams, some are toxic, some are great, how is any of this anything more than a rant at the moon ? Why not start a group with rules you like for yourself ?

 
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 04:18:52 am by rjp »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1691 on: October 20, 2019, 04:39:27 am »
Actually there's an interesting data point that came up just the other day. I'm good friends with a female coworker I regularly work closely with, she's in one of our other locations so communication is mostly over Slack and she was complaining to me that one of the engineers was being a dick. I was curious so I asked what she meant and she sent me a screenshot of the communication and when I read it, it didn't sound unfriendly at all to me, it was something along the lines of "in the future if you would do xyz that would be great, doing abc is not helpful" which I take as the guy (who is not a native English speaker) offering advice that would both make life for the engineering team easier and save her time she was spending gathering information that was not needed. Anyway the point is that text communication lacks nuances you get with verbal communication, and engineers in particular can be somewhat blunt without intending to be rude. I mean I know the guy and he's always struck me as very friendly toward everybody and his point was very clear to me.

Obviously if you go into a situation expecting hostility you're going to read hostility into things where none was present and I've observed that some people tend to respond to this perceived hostility with hostility or even be preemptively hostile. This I think illustrates the damage that is done by spreading this sort of BS, training them to expect to be treated poorly before they even get there.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1692 on: October 20, 2019, 04:57:16 am »
As an example, claiming that women are oppressed/unfairly treated against in STEM fields, because there are fewer female students than male students, has been proven false by several studies, already referred to in this thread.  If you disagree with those studies, you need to consider why.

There are in fact STEM fields that have more women than men.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1693 on: October 20, 2019, 05:00:27 am »
Quote
BTW I know of no one except progressive politicians who are making any money off of these "movements"... who are these people that are supposedly making a living pushing for the goals and what are these goals?  Only people I know involved in these movements are volunteers and donors.  Perhaps its different in the UK.
https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/diversity-manager-jobs?position=1&pageNum=0
Anything to add? There's a whole position who's job it is to fix imaginary problems invented by grievance studies.
Companies would not create these jobs if people didn't think this was a valuable position.  I don't think it has anything to do with "movements"... it has to do with value.

LOL
It's entirely about corporate virtue signaling.
You seriously have blinders on about what's happening the real world.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1694 on: October 20, 2019, 05:09:54 am »
https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-women-engineering-implicit-bias-1028-biz-20161027-story.html

I think this thread is the epitome of why there's a lack of women in engineering.  There's so much evidence here that women in engineering will be treated without due regard for their feelings, wishes, or rights.
While I would prefer not to getting into the realms of personal attacks, by 1600+ posts in this thread it seems quite obvious that you seem to be 1) trolling to keep this thread going, and/or 2) a genuine apologist.

Well, what do you know, Windsmurf has another account "sambonator" which has been used to post in this thread as well.
Zero tolerance for that on this forum, both accounts now banned.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1695 on: October 20, 2019, 06:21:01 am »
I'm curious how you can be so sure when multiple accounts are owned by the same person? Surely it's possible if not likely that two people in the same household, library, workplace, etc are members of the forum posting from the same IP, possibly even the same device? I'm not necessarily suggesting that's what happened here, but I do wonder how it can be so certain that it's one person with multiple accounts.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1696 on: October 20, 2019, 06:53:24 am »
I'm curious how you can be so sure when multiple accounts are owned by the same person? Surely it's possible if not likely that two people in the same household, library, workplace, etc are members of the forum posting from the same IP, possibly even the same device? I'm not necessarily suggesting that's what happened here, but I do wonder how it can be so certain that it's one person with multiple accounts.

"Things"  ;D
People aren't as careful as they think they are, especially elsewhere on the Internet.
In this case it's something outside this forum that proves it beyond any doubt. When I went to check there is literally one google result returned (from more than decade ago), and that's the gotcha.
But even without an external reference it was obvious, and I have a 100% track record on being right on this stuff. People will often admit it after they are caught.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 06:55:56 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline daqq

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1697 on: October 20, 2019, 08:24:51 am »
Quote
BTW I know of no one except progressive politicians who are making any money off of these "movements"... who are these people that are supposedly making a living pushing for the goals and what are these goals?  Only people I know involved in these movements are volunteers and donors.  Perhaps its different in the UK.
https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/diversity-manager-jobs?position=1&pageNum=0
Anything to add? There's a whole position who's job it is to fix imaginary problems invented by grievance studies.
Companies would not create these jobs if people didn't think this was a valuable position.  I don't think it has anything to do with "movements"... it has to do with value.
During the previous regime in my country (Slovakia, Czechoslovakia at the time (we have a complicated history)) there was a position in companies - "kadrovy pracovnik" (I don't know if there is any translation). Their function was essentially political evaluation of fitness, monitoring dissent and other joys, with very broad powers.
So, if, say you mentioned that you disapproved of the 1968 soviet occupation brotherly intervention, you may very well find yourself out of a job, regardless of everything you have achieved up to that point, your education, etc. And there were worse things available then losing a job.
They added absolutely no value to the process. People were scared of them and knew that they had to keep a close watch over their tongue.

Now, it should be noted that I have not lived through that era, aside from a few years as a baby. But, from the recollections of my relatives, friends, books and essentially every source that was alive back then, I can tell you this:
You do NOT want those fuckers back. And "Diversity managers" are very close to them, this is what you buggers are trying to resurrect.

I'm having some trouble finding English sources that would be readable to the forum occupants and some of the words have no proper translation, so google translate fails.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 08:30:46 am by daqq »
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Online Black Phoenix

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1698 on: October 20, 2019, 08:42:00 am »

You do NOT want those fuckers back. And "Diversity managers" are very close to them, this is what you buggers are trying to resurrect.

My neighbour in Portugal was married with a Slovak ID Citizen, now probably already Portuguese Citizen (they were taking care of her change of nationality). She was a Teacher at the Slovenská Technická Univerzita v Bratislave (thank you Google for the right wording) and one day regarding exactly the Gender topic and exactly what you spoke it was what she said, including some stories about how people were afraid of speaking or even doing things that could be interpreted as against the Soviet Occupation. She spoke as from what she had learn and experiences from his family and friends family, since she was young kid at the time.
 
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Offline Howardlong

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1699 on: October 20, 2019, 09:45:14 am »
During the previous regime in my country (Slovakia, Czechoslovakia at the time (we have a complicated history)) there was a position in companies - "kadrovy pracovnik" (I don't know if there is any translation). Their function was essentially political evaluation of fitness, monitoring dissent and other joys, with very broad powers.
So, if, say you mentioned that you disapproved of the 1968 soviet occupation brotherly intervention, you may very well find yourself out of a job, regardless of everything you have achieved up to that point, your education, etc. And there were worse things available then losing a job.
They added absolutely no value to the process. People were scared of them and knew that they had to keep a close watch over their tongue.

The only difference between this and today’s Western cancel culture is that it’s not the state that’s doing it, not yet at any rate.

I am sure many of us here lived through the cold war. In history classes we were told an awful lot about Nazi Germany, and rightly so. Almost nothing was formally taught about what had been going on the other side of the iron curtain, anything we picked up was what was picked up passively from the news. While we were aware of the lack of freedoms afforded to their citizens, it is only recently I’ve become aware that the authoritarian communist regimes to the East were as bad, if not worse in terms of genocide, but for some reason that wasn’t taught.

Nowadays in some circles in the West, being a communist is worn as a badge of honour, and often given uncritical and unquestioned airtime on mainstream media: you wonder what they’re being taught nowadays, it’s quite frightening.

I’m no fan of Piers Morgan, but there’s a clip of him challenging a pundit called Ash Sarkar who blurted out “I’m a communist, idiot” when questioned. This turned into a t-shirt, as if it was in some way good.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 09:48:08 am by Howardlong »
 
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