Author Topic: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.  (Read 106745 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1850 on: January 12, 2020, 09:29:21 am »
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/hungary-bans-gender-studies-programmes-viktor-orban-central-european-university-budapest-a8599796.html
Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban bans gender studies programmes

This article is over a year old.

In Hungary university is free, funded by the taxpayer. The gender studies wasn't banned as such, but the government refused to fund the programme any longer. It's still possible for a private university to run this course. At least that's how I understood the situation when I heard about it.

Anyone know the end result after a year?
Correct that gender studies basically produces political activists of no real value.
If there is anything of value its drowned out by the activism.
This whole thread is about how it is infecting engineering and science.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 09:59:38 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1851 on: January 12, 2020, 09:58:25 am »
and then it was Dave legitimizing Orban and dismissing gender studies.

LOL, you must be new here.
I have no idea who Orban is, never heard of him before. Anyone who thinks I'm somehow "legitimizing" him is reaching, to biblical proportions.
But removing public funding for BS degrees like gender studies, homeopathy, theology, et.al will always get the thumbs up from me.
Heck, I think I'd actually prefer theology to the horrible politics that gender studies is producing.

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I would prefer people to talk about stuff they actually know about. Severely disappointing.

I do know about how gender politics is infesting society, and in particular engineering and science.
And no one cares if you are disappointed in anything or anyone.
 
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Offline daqq

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1852 on: January 12, 2020, 10:34:39 am »
I don't know what's up but on Twitter I first encountered @twelovegv , We love GMOs and Vaccines performing the "rudely demanding use of certain pronouns" routine and then it was Dave legitimizing Orban and dismissing gender studies.
Let's be honest here, gender studies and other grievance studies are at best useless ways to spend ones time, at worst are actively harmful to everyone involved. The whole thing has left the realm of sanity far behind.
I would prefer people to talk about stuff they actually know about.
You should try it some time.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1853 on: January 12, 2020, 10:46:38 am »
Let's be honest here, gender studies and other grievance studies are at best useless ways to spend ones time, at worst are actively harmful to everyone involved. The whole thing has left the realm of sanity far behind.

Indeed.
For those that think gender studies produces valuable research and is tax dollars well spent, hasn't read any of the "research".
As for the graduates of these courses, they will be very sorry in a decades time when all of the useless jobs dry up as companies and governments and the public catch on to how useless (and indeed even harmful) they actually are. You can see it starting to happen already.
 
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Offline JulietMikeBravo

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1854 on: January 12, 2020, 10:51:01 am »
You said something that drew quite some criticism from your followers. Then you deleted the whole thread and claimed it was old news. How convenient.

Dismissing gender studies and comparing it to homeopathy is quite sad. I can probably create one hell of an argument with "progressive" people doing gender studies but I won't simply dismiss it in the way you are doing.

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1855 on: January 12, 2020, 11:17:09 am »
You said something that drew quite some criticism from your followers. Then you deleted the whole thread and claimed it was old news. How convenient.

I can't delete threads. I deleted my tweet because I mistakenly thought this was new news, it's not. I don't give a shit what anyone thinks, I've been tweeting about this rubbish for years.
And IIRC the tweet had more Likes than triggered responses. I get vastly more hate and lost followers and criticism when I tweet that I hate cats. Seriously.

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Dismissing gender studies and comparing it to homeopathy is quite sad.

It's demonstrably true that both cause harm to people. Not that I was actually comparing them directly, I was just giving examples of other degrees I don't believe should be publicly funded either.

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I can probably create one hell of an argument with "progressive" people doing gender studies but I won't simply dismiss it in the way you are doing.

I do not support public funding of this rubbish. And if there are any good aspects to it, like I said in a previous post, that it drowned out by the politics and activism of it all. Not my problem, it's demonstrably true that gender studies politics has lead to societal harm, so I have to dismiss the whole lot in not supporting public funding of it.
The only thing I see coming out of it is harm to every area gender politics touches, this thread that's been going on for years is testament to how it's infecting engineering and science.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 11:20:46 am by EEVblog »
 
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Online bd139

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1856 on: January 12, 2020, 11:46:04 am »
Well said.

The analogy is deeper as well. Both homeopathy and gender studies seem to be about self-empowerment past rationality.
 

Online coppice

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1857 on: January 12, 2020, 01:50:23 pm »
Well said.

The analogy is deeper as well. Both homeopathy and gender studies seem to be about self-empowerment past rationality.
Homeopathy has the redeeming quality that its proponents at least know its harmless, even if it can cause bad knock on effects, like making people skip real medical help.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1858 on: January 12, 2020, 02:46:44 pm »
Exactly and that's the harmful bit.

I'll refer to my uncle on that one. Generally the nicest person on the planet. However one fine christmas he complained of a sore throat. This didn't go away after two weeks. My aunt, new age woo merchant, "prescribed" arnica to make it go away and shouted his concerns down because he wanted to go see an actual doctor. So he suffered for nearly 6 months under her. Eventually he started getting headaches and weakness. Turned out it was pretty aggressive cancer and had metastatised and worked its way into his nervous system. Lived another 3 months, the last month crying and screaming 24/7 and begging for people to kill him as none of the chemo or pain killers worked. Eventually he died of cardiac arrest from the stress rather than the cancer itself.  To this day she still pushes that shit to people. She has caused untold amount of damage to an unknown amount of people.

She only does it because she actually enjoys the self importance and some kind of respect she gets for it.

ALL stupid ideas and self-empowerment ideologies are dangerous and have mortal risks directly or indirectly.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 02:49:47 pm by bd139 »
 
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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1859 on: January 12, 2020, 08:15:28 pm »
I hate the idea of "legitimizing".

No human is a pure monster.  Even the worst serial killers have done an occasional good deed.  Just because someone is a monster, does not mean everything they do is bad.

Let's evoke Godwin's law.  In 1933, the Nazis enacted strict animal welfare and environment protection laws.  Should we forbid environmentalism because of Holocaust?

When a human does good, you point it out and congratulate them for doing the good thing.
When a human does bad, you point it out and criticize them.
This is the feedback mechanism, often called "societal pressure", that has worked for millenia.

You do not select someone and label them bad, and demand nobody acknowledge their good actions, only criticize their bad ones, because "they are an evil person".  That is not rational.  It is tribal or religious behaviour that only leads to conflict, and keeps us humans in constant warfare.  "Legitimizing" in itself is a toxic, horrible concept, that you should never use unless your intent is to sow discord and support warfare.  Stop it.
 
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Offline JulietMikeBravo

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1860 on: January 12, 2020, 08:51:44 pm »
I hate the idea of "legitimizing".

 toxic, horrible concept, that you should never use unless your intent is to sow discord and support warfare.  Stop it.

I hate circle jerks, echo chambers and self-righteousness. I wonder what's worse, talking to gender studies proponents or interacting with the fine people of this topic.  |O  :bullshit:
 
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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1861 on: January 12, 2020, 10:05:33 pm »
I hate the idea of "legitimizing".

 toxic, horrible concept, that you should never use unless your intent is to sow discord and support warfare.  Stop it.

I hate circle jerks, echo chambers and self-righteousness. I wonder what's worse, talking to gender studies proponents or interacting with the fine people of this topic.  |O  :bullshit:
Why then repeat and propagate it yourself?  Sounds like "I hate it when others behave like I do" argument to me.

You don't like Victor Orbán and his government?  Fine, I have no problem with that.  Point out their errors, even better.
But refuse to acknowledge when they do a sane, correct decision -- and stopping government funding for grievance studies is one -- because of who made the decision, and you act like a tribalistic/religious zealot.

Grievance studies are not studies, because they research nothing.  They state claims, assign blame, and demand outcomes, arbitrarily according to their own internal ideas and ideology, without any kind of proof.  They detest science, and even claim meritocracy is evil.  They refuse to treat humans as individuals, and instead categorize them; and place blame on specific groups not because of their actions, but based on historical behaviour of others who they claim belonged to the same group.  It is utter nonsense.  It is as evil as human sacrifice, because it does the same thing, but on a much larger scale.

I know nothing I write here will change your mind, because you are already completely programmed ideologically: no argument will ever affect your programming.  I consider you a lost cause, one more human who refuses to think critically.  However, these forums are read by a lot of people, and the reason I write these comments, is in the hopes that I help at least some to see for themselves, and encourage critical thinking and a non-tribal/non-eusocial attitude.  Arguments and actions stand for themselves; they do not depend on the human that made them.
 
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Online bd139

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1862 on: January 12, 2020, 10:07:15 pm »
I hate the idea of "legitimizing".

 toxic, horrible concept, that you should never use unless your intent is to sow discord and support warfare.  Stop it.

I hate circle jerks, echo chambers and self-righteousness. I wonder what's worse, talking to gender studies proponents or interacting with the fine people of this topic.  |O  :bullshit:

No irony there at all ....
 

Offline Deodand2014

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1863 on: January 12, 2020, 11:08:02 pm »
Let's be honest here, gender studies and other grievance studies are at best useless ways to spend ones time, at worst are actively harmful to everyone involved. The whole thing has left the realm of sanity far behind.

Indeed.
For those that think gender studies produces valuable research and is tax dollars well spent, hasn't read any of the "research".
As for the graduates of these courses, they will be very sorry in a decades time when all of the useless jobs dry up as companies and governments and the public catch on to how useless (and indeed even harmful) they actually are. You can see it starting to happen already.

It seems that Literature and the Humanities is finally suffering the consequences of birthing this folly...

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A new supplement in the Chronicle of Higher Education (click on screenshot below) comprises a series of 14 shortish pieces about the decline in funding for and in the reputation of literary studies in American universities. Several of the authors (all professors) diagnose the problem, and some of them offer solutions, none of which seem viable in today’s climate. Towards the end, a few pieces adamantly try to buttress the prestige of humanities—and the right of professors to assert their elitism and expertise in the face of what they see as rampant student egalitarianism that they feel is destroying the humanities. (I agree in part: there are too many specialized nonsense courses catering to student desires.)

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2020/01/12/literary-studies-on-the-decline-but-why-scholars-analyze-the-problem/#comments
 

Online coppice

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1864 on: January 13, 2020, 12:29:02 am »
It seems that Literature and the Humanities is finally suffering the consequences of birthing this folly...

Quote
A new supplement in the Chronicle of Higher Education (click on screenshot below) comprises a series of 14 shortish pieces about the decline in funding for and in the reputation of literary studies in American universities. Several of the authors (all professors) diagnose the problem, and some of them offer solutions, none of which seem viable in today’s climate. Towards the end, a few pieces adamantly try to buttress the prestige of humanities—and the right of professors to assert their elitism and expertise in the face of what they see as rampant student egalitarianism that they feel is destroying the humanities. (I agree in part: there are too many specialized nonsense courses catering to student desires.)

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2020/01/12/literary-studies-on-the-decline-but-why-scholars-analyze-the-problem/#comments
This really has little to do with the current insanity in the humanities. Some time ago specific steps were taken in the US to trash the value of a PhD through oversupply, as there was a fear of STEM PhDs being able demand ever high pay. There is a real industrial demand for a considerable number of STEM PhDs, but the only meaningful path for a PhD in most humanities is academia. Academia grew for a time, as more people attended college, but that has stopped. You can't keep pushing out more PhDs into a small stagnant market, without bad consequences. They were inevitably heading for a reckoning

Its interesting that none of the articles in The Chronicle Review address the bigger picture with liberal arts - the number of entire liberal arts colleges which have closed down or are teetering on the brink, as the demand for them shrinks.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 03:05:49 pm by coppice »
 

Offline daqq

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1865 on: January 13, 2020, 09:26:11 am »
I hate circle jerks, echo chambers and self-righteousness.
I believe you just described SJWs, gender studies and their 'research papers' perfectly.
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Offline MyHeadHz

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1866 on: January 26, 2020, 04:38:32 am »
(the infection is now down to blatantly overt racism and sexism)



(from GNOME)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 06:05:50 am by MyHeadHz »
 
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Offline nardev

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1867 on: January 26, 2020, 04:44:54 am »
(the infection is now down to blatantly overt racism and sexism)

https://i.postimg.cc/SQxDzzWv/linux.png

(from GNOME)

Ur catching something with that shitty URL or it's just a wrong copy/paste?
 

Offline nardev

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1868 on: January 26, 2020, 05:13:48 am »
https://i.postimg.cc/SQxDzzWv/linux.png
To put it more clearly than nardev, the link does not work.

Well, since it's some shitty redirect, could be that it actually works :D but something else ccc :D :box: :box: :box: :-DD |O :palm:
 

Offline MyHeadHz

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1869 on: January 26, 2020, 06:07:06 am »
Well, I left it as a link so it wouldn't load unless you click it, since it's a big file.  I changed it to a directly loaded image.  Let me know if it still doesn't work for you and I'll try another host or something.

Thanks for the feedback, and I'll keep that in mind next time.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 06:18:23 am by MyHeadHz »
 

Offline nardev

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1870 on: January 26, 2020, 06:11:30 am »
Well, I left it as a link so it wouldn't load unless you click it, since it's a big file.  Let me know if it still doesn't work for you and I'll try another host or something.

Now it works, it wasn't at first. Tried several times : )

« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 06:15:14 am by nardev »
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1871 on: January 26, 2020, 06:55:20 am »
Although I do like some projects under the GNOME umbrella, like GTK+, some others like GDM are utter shit.  The Cinnamon split due to GNOME Shell is pretty telling.  There are a lot of devs in GNOME projects who advocate for removing user-tunables, because they feel they know better than their users.

I have a feeling that the GNOME community folks are those who cannot develop; the developers who found actual work too hard and much prefer conferences and discussions and community driving.

So, that kind of announcements are not really a surprise to me, and probably do not reflect anything about the individual projects under the GNOME umbrella.
 

Online magic

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1872 on: January 26, 2020, 07:45:06 am »
The real WTF is that GNOME apparently still exists and somebody is using it? :wtf:

Feels nice living under this particular rock 8)

edit
I suppose it's the explorer.exe of RedHat Linux these days, ain't it?
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 07:48:01 am by magic »
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1873 on: January 26, 2020, 11:51:42 am »
The real WTF is that GNOME apparently still exists and somebody is using it? :wtf:

Feels nice living under this particular rock 8)

edit
I suppose it's the explorer.exe of RedHat Linux these days, ain't it?
You could say GNOME Shell is >:D

But, GTK+ is actively developed, and is used by the XFCE, LXDE, and Cinnamon Desktop Environments, and technically is under the GNOME umbrella.  It's got a pretty eclectic set of core maintainers (RedHat, Google, Canonical, Lanedo GmbH, Codethink).  The code is not too bad, considering it is a native C widget toolkit.  They have switched from mailing list discussions to Discourse, though; me no like.

I wonder how many crappy patches are left through because developers like me, who like to point out shit without beating around the bush, have to stop giving feedback to delicate submitters; more socially aware devs tend to let things slide in order to keep others happy, and I've seen in real world how that negatively impacts the end product.

My wager is that within the current decade, we'll get a resurgence in "direct speech", i.e. without PC/SJ nonsense, in projects where the technical quality requirements are more important than individual human emotional satisfaction.  I could be wrong, but that's my bet.
 
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Online magic

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Re: Gender politics has now infected engineering as well.
« Reply #1874 on: January 26, 2020, 12:16:08 pm »
in projects where the technical quality requirements are more important than individual human emotional satisfaction
That's the thing. Desktop software is essentially a solved problem. The only reason it's not all in maintenance mode is because of idealist wankers and companies seeking to keep expanding their market after all people who actually need computers have already bought them. It's a tough world :D
 
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