Author Topic: Electronics companies should stop killing themselves  (Read 7185 times)

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Offline MK14

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2023, 02:11:25 pm »
What's the minimum viable product, to make a SMPS get a thanks here?
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2023, 02:15:49 pm »
What's the minimum viable product, to make a SMPS get a thanks here?

:)

Faringdon whines about analogue electronics being devalued, yet he does exactly that to the thanks mechanism.

I suppose we should be grateful to him for demonstrating the dangers of upvoting and downvoting. Fortunately Dave is adamently against downvoting.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline MK14

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2023, 03:30:00 pm »
What's the minimum viable product, to make a SMPS get a thanks here?

:)

Faringdon whines about analogue electronics being devalued, yet he does exactly that to the thanks mechanism.

I suppose we should be grateful to him for demonstrating the dangers of upvoting and downvoting. Fortunately Dave is adamently against downvoting.

If downvoting, which I'm also against.  Had a top forum totals position, especially if it had the 'dislike thread' option/counts.  I can't imagine, who would win (well lose actually), such a challenge.  Can't think?

Arguably, even in the day (a long time ago), must of our electronics things, was done in America, anyway.  E.g. IC production, soon (mostly) moved (and stayed) in America, as we use to have some chip making plants.

Things like SMPS's, are obvious candidates, for being produced in the cheapest available/viable country in the world, to do it, at a reasonable enough quality standard.

Even hundreds of years ago, various things came from various places around the world.  E.g. China (as in dishes), Food from various countries.  Persian rugs (from Persia, named as such, at that time).

What we should do, is rename Treez's home city, to be called SMPS.  Hence its University will be called SMPS.  If it only teaches SMPS.  Then all factories and people in that town/city can just make SMPS.

They can then sell them round the world, to anyone, at not much more than ten times what it would cost to buy them from an unmentionable country.

We can then create a new forum for that city, SMPS, and all happily sing the new town/city anthem, SMPS's are great.

Here is the anthem.  N.B. I carefully spent many days creating and fine tuning it, and didn't use ChatGPT at all.

Quote
(Verse 1)
In the realm of technology, where power reigns supreme,
There's a mighty force that hums in the unseen.
Switch mode power supplies, the heart of our machines,
Efficiency and reliability, the secrets they convene.

(Chorus)
Oh, let us sing the anthem of the SMPS,
A melody of innovation, powering success.
Treez shall lead the way, harmonizing the beat,
With circuits intertwined, our destiny complete.

(Verse 2)
With every pulse and cycle, they transform the energy,
From AC to DC, a symphony of synergy.
Voltage regulation, a conductor's delicate touch,
Ensuring stability, they deliver power as such.

(Chorus)
Oh, let us sing the anthem of the SMPS,
A melody of innovation, powering success.
Treez shall lead the way, harmonizing the beat,
With circuits intertwined, our destiny complete.

(Bridge)
From desktops to automobiles, their reach expands afar,
Efficiently they march, as the brightest guiding star.
Effortlessly they adapt, to currents and loads,
Withstanding the test of time, they never corrode.

(Verse 3)
Transformers and inductors, dancing in the core,
Transistors and diodes, weaving currents evermore.
Through the winding paths of PCBs they traverse,
Uniting voltages and currents, they deliver with finesse.

(Chorus)
Oh, let us sing the anthem of the SMPS,
A melody of innovation, powering success.
Treez shall lead the way, harmonizing the beat,
With circuits intertwined, our destiny complete.

(Outro)
So let us raise our voices, in praise of the SMPS,
As Treez sings this anthem, embracing what it means.
Efficiency and reliability, the pillars that endure,
In the world of power, Switch mode supplies ensure.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2023, 03:31:54 pm by MK14 »
 
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2023, 08:18:30 pm »
Help us to stop these company owners from flushing their dosh down the toilet!

While I'm all for making more people realize how we're killing our own industry - as I said earlier - and, contrary to some other people, I don't think talking about it is completely useless (if you never talk about it, it just becomes normal for everyone), I'm not sure I understand the particular point you're making here.

You don't seem to be exactly complaining about the western industry getting killed, but you're instead apparently willing to prevent company owners from killing their own companies. Which is not quite the same thing, and which is kind of odd. One question that comes up is, why would you actually care? Maybe you care because you happen to consistently find yourself working in/for such companies and paying the price yourself?

Maybe focusing on creating your own company, doing things the "right" way (as you see it) would be more productive? If a company is not your company, you should not waste time trying to save it. It's not yours, there's nothing you can (usually) do about it, and whatever efforts you'll put into this, that's going to be wasted efforts and you are likely to get laid off as a result, rather than get promoted. Company owners don't like to hear that they've been doing things wrong for years, especially from an employee or a contractor, because that's just not their job.

I don't think any of that can be solved by trying to educate (or even worse, force) existing companies. Probably the only hope is to create companies that work in a different way (and that's not going to be easy.) Just a thought.
 
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Offline Gyro

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2023, 09:43:19 pm »
It's entertaining the way these 'rants' on the industry decline, 'don't trust the temporary guy, he'll steal the schematics', they won't trust me' etc align with the starts and ends of contracts in his employment history. One might almost think that they were linked!
Best Regards, Chris
 
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Offline floobydust

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2023, 03:32:47 am »
I like that the threads contain nothing sequitor with repeating themes, reach no conclusion of any kind. S/N ratio very poor.
Trolling for attention I guess is a real thing.

"Table 1. Maximum-likelihood factor analysis with promax rotation of trolling descriptors"

1. Seeks conflict
2. Seeks attention
3. Annoying
4. Irritating
5. Unkind
6. Immature
7. Time-wasting
8. Bored
9. Provoking
11. Too much time on their hands
12. Inconsiderate
14. Insensitive
15. Rude
16. Argumentative
17. Troublemaker
18. Persistent
19. Idiotic
20. Unthoughtful
21. Likes anonymity
22. Ridiculous
23. Ignorant
24. Lack of social decorum
25. Opinionated
26. Cowardly
27. Tactless
28. Impulsive
29. False
30. Aggressive
31. Low self-confidence
32. Insecure
33. Lonely
34. Emotional
35. Scared
36. Jealous
37. Has unresolved issues
38. Disappointed
39. Envious
40. Introverted
41. Sad
42. Awkward
43. Powerless
44. Troubled
45. Sheltered
46. Odd
47. Unattached
48. Vicious
49. Nasty
50. Cruel
51. Vindictive
52. Spiteful
53. Mean
54. Bullying
55. Unpleasant
56. Vocal
57. Sly
58. Selfish
59. Unintelligent
60. Uneducated
61. Uninteresting
62. Ignorant
63. Weird
64. Funny
65. Comedic
66. Clever
67. Witty
68. Social
69. Different
70. Mischievous
71. Sarcastic
Items that cross-loaded on factors
72. Dramatic
73. Angst-ridden
74. Lacking compassion
75. Seeks approval
76. Unsympathetic
77. Uncaring
78. Untrustworthy
79. Bitter
80. Cheeky
81. Excited
82. Unique
83. Self-confident
Items that didn’t load saliently on a factor
84. Contentious
85. Liar
86. Two-faced
87. Irrational
 
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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2023, 08:15:51 am »
Obsessions with switch mode power supplies can be treated successfully by finding yourself a girlfriend.
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2023, 08:37:38 am »
Obsessions with switch mode power supplies can be treated successfully by finding yourself a girlfriend.

Not in the cases where the obsession makes the latter unobtainable, or one obsession cannot be replaced with another.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2023, 11:35:33 pm »
Obsessions with switch mode power supplies can be treated successfully by finding yourself a girlfriend.

Not in the cases where the obsession makes the latter unobtainable, or one obsession cannot be replaced with another.

Oddly enough, one reason I studied electronics engineering at university was because I thought such a profession would make me a chick magnet, like that of an airline pilot, lawyer or doctor. Not in this country!
 
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2023, 11:44:24 pm »
Obsessions with switch mode power supplies can be treated successfully by finding yourself a girlfriend.

Not in the cases where the obsession makes the latter unobtainable, or one obsession cannot be replaced with another.

Oddly enough, one reason I studied electronics engineering at university was because I thought such a profession would make me a chick magnet, like that of an airline pilot, lawyer or doctor. Not in this country!

Not sure in which country that would be the case. Or you picked the wrong century. ;D

 
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Online RJSV

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2023, 12:52:18 am »
   Scrunching my face, trying to decode your contorted and very cynical portrayal.  Man' o 'man talk about a de-motivating factor:  100 newly degree'd engineers just decided to 'quit' electronics, after your influence.

  What?  Every business is really with 'back room's shenanigans...and the honest blokes don't have any standing.   Rubbish!
 
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Offline FaringdonTopic starter

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2023, 11:16:33 pm »
Do you think we should get a letter to the industrial bodies together?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2023, 05:26:56 pm by Faringdon »
'Perfection' is the enemy of 'perfectly satisfactory'
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2023, 11:28:53 pm »
Oh, really.
 
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Online ataradov

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2023, 11:31:46 pm »
I assume those people already receive plenty of mail from crazy people.

Also, do you care to substantiate any of those statements?

And I have not worked for 40 companies, so the template is not universal.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2023, 11:34:11 pm by ataradov »
Alex
 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2023, 11:57:39 pm »
And I have not worked for 40 companies, so the template is not universal.

No its totally normal to get fired from your job every few months and find a new one. Completely universal.
Profile -> Modify profile -> Look and Layout ->  Don't show users' signatures
 
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Offline coppice

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2023, 12:01:48 am »
Treez/ocset/faringdon appears to be an excellent exemplar of something described by Isaac Asimov in 1957. His novella "Profession" is still worth speedreading.
https://www.inf.ufpr.br/renato/profession.html

The points in that resonated with me when I was a schoolkid, and significantly and positively benefited my career and outlook on life.
Are you sure you read that story? You seem to keep referencing it in contexts where it doesn't fit. The whole point of that story is the vast majority of people are incapable of doing anything really interesting, and the small number of truly creative are hard to recognise. There is nothing the vast majority of people can do about their lot in life. Only the small number of truly creative people can do anything about their lot in life, and really need to, as they can so easily be screwed by the clueless.
 
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Offline coppice

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2023, 12:04:53 am »
And I have not worked for 40 companies, so the template is not universal.
No its totally normal to get fired from your job every few months and find a new one. Completely universal.
When sifting through piles of CVs it amazes me how many people are deeply impressed by CVs showing a long string of jobs. When you point out this means the candidate offers poor stability they have to agree, but with great reluctance.
 
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Online fourfathom

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2023, 01:01:31 am »
This all reminds me of a guy I used to work with.  He interviewed reasonably well, so we hired him. He turned out to be quite "difficult" and after all the proper legal steps were taken he was terminated for cause.  Soon after that he actually received start-up funding for a networking gear company that quickly cratered, with armed guards escorting him out of the building.  (His company name was "Cratos Networks" -- https://www.lightreading.com/ethernet-ip/cratos-networks-tips-its-hand/d/d-id/572791).  Anyway, after that he distributed this amazing "Letter to the Industry".  Since the statute of limitations has expired (this was around 2001) I am posting it here.  This may not be the place for it, but this thread is already damaged beyond redemption and I have long wanted to share this letter.

It's a long letter, but IMO worth reading.  The "Chambers" mentioned is John Chambers, then CEO of Cisco Systems.  Our company (Cerent) was acquired by Cisco.

Quote
Erudite Folks,

Upon due contemplation, I have to write to you again (and hopefully the last time) to resolve certain matters that have gone on for 2 years. I apologize for the inconvenience but not only I need help from the industry, this can be best resolved by the intervention by the industry. I have made repeated attempts to get these matters resolved many times over last one year, but only resulted in a choking strategy by trying to back me in a corner, so I request the people in the industry to step in to put an end to it for good in a specific time-frame. This can be easily ended with some executive decisions from the industry and the people copied on this are in a position to do so, as well as bring it to the attention of Chambers of the world. Also it is important to simply resolve it by executive decisions, as experience has shown that discussions result in primeval chaos. I also believe, that this specific issue is the root cause of all problems, which when resolved will automatically take care of other problems.

My objective is to focus on the desired outcome, but wherever necessary, I have to give some details, even though I am just tired of even talking about it, as it is a total waste of time. I also note that this has continued because the people involved have used deceitful tactics to waste time.

Before I go into some of the details and what I believe to be the right set of steps towards an amicable & just resolution, one obvious question needs to be answered (which is a very valid question). Whether some miscreants intentionally tried to put my life on hold or was it just a case of bad times? To ensure objective & rational analysis without involving emotions, I have had a few of my friends go over all the details. The judgment is that: Bad times resulted in few opportunities (to start a company as well as some job opportunities), but sabotaging coupled with riot psychology, obsession  & malicious gossip played a significantly detrimental role. Meticulously gathered evidence to that effect can be provided if necessary.

The modus operandi was more like the “warrior breed” from Carl Jung’s “Modern Man in Search of a Soul”, an irrational, unjustified attempt driven by psychotic obsession & malice, by resorting to stealth, intricate web of deceit, behind the scenes manipulations of facts, schoolyard bullying by promoting riot psychology to gang up and using destructive means of torture. In simple words, this has nothing to do with ego, as ego by it’s etymology is a driving force to achieve great things/greatness and resulting in highest humility upon success. To the best of my knowledge, champions do no behave in such a manner, but only champions belong on a high pedestal. If you have a lemon and can’t make a lemonade, is it justified to blame the tree that grew the lemon?

Desired terms of resolution:

My request is that the industry sets a specific date by which these issues must be fully resolved and an agreement be in place, which can then be discussed in person (LP’s can pay for my trip to CA or send a representative out here to hash out finer details of the terms). This shouldn’t take more than a week, in fact this can be done in half a day. But I am mentioning this because I have seen delay/time-wasting tactics using deceit.

Everybody makes mistakes and although in this case there are clearly some things which are more than genuine mistakes, can still be forgiven provided there is a prompt & proper resolution. I am extending my courtesy to forget & forgive as part of any amicable resolution.

Compensation for damages: There are variety of damages caused in the process. These damages are both personal (and some very priceless indeed!) as well as professional, both of which have some longer-term repercussions, unfortunately. In my previous correspondence with LP’s, I had asked for $35mil in compensation, for whatever unjustified reasons, they do not wish to conduct themselves professionally. I will give specifics of how I arrived at this number using conservative numbers. I included $5 mil that I would have made from my company, which should have been successful had it not been messed with. I added another $25mil for priceless personal & annoying professional damages done, which not only have greatly disrupted my life plans but have hindered the progress on those fronts for some obvious reasons, which have some other highly undesired repercussions (mainly on the personal side). I added another $5 mil for lost wages & benefits as well as undone wages from Cratos over the period of more than 2 years. So, let the industry decide the right compensation which everybody should agree on.
Clearing up the gossip & name tainting: Every piece of gossip out there has been dismissed with prejudice as part of the Court Case and covered under a Settlement Agreement, so it should not have happened in the first place. Secondly, the riot psychology brought in more people trying to take advantage of the situation, including attempts to steal some of my latest business plans. Quite a few people have credibility problems it seems. It also resulted in quite a few VC’s misbehaving with me. This can be easily cleared up by privately communicating with the VC’s on both coasts and some folks in the industry, with proper guidelines for future. I have some simple ideas of how this can be achieved without humiliating anybody and can be discussed in person. (This also needs to be done for few other people as well, who became silent victims).
It is my opinion that LP’s be asked to issue me a public apology, again I leave it to the industry to decide.
Professional front: There has to be immediate progress on the professional front.
Those involved in this (you know who they are) must leave the industry for atleast 2 years. If they fail to conduct professionally and agree to the decisions of the industry, they must leave the industry for 5 years. Again let the industry decide, but my opinion is that unless they are given taste of their own medicine they are likely to do such things again.
Digital-Crossconnect Property: I had never transferred rights to this into Cratos, although they have claimed rights to this property. I also believe that there might have been a payoff from either Bessemer or Tellabs on this for Ocular. So, I leave it to the industry to decide who really owns this property and who the money belongs to if there was a payoff.

I appreciate immediate action from the Industry without paying attention to time-wasting deceit, which unfortunately does damage to me. Time has come to end this right away.

Regards,
[name deleted]
We'll search out every place a sick, twisted, solitary misfit might run to! -- I'll start with Radio Shack.
 
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Online xrunner

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2023, 01:10:20 am »
Sounds like it could have come from this automatic complaint letter generator  :-DD

https://www.pakin.org/complaint
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Offline floobydust

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2023, 02:46:58 am »
Reminds me of Jerry McGuire's Mission Statement Letter... it touched everyone's heart.

Look at Elon Musk- he sacks all those Twitter employess, they go over the Facebook and work on Threads.
Now he's all whaaaaa  “willful” misappropriation of trade secrets, they stole IP! But you fired them dumbass. You don't own people, slave driver.
These guys don't realize that what's in an engineer's head walks out the door and they can't own the guy's brain. Even a big NDA can't take away your right to prosper I've found.
 
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Online fourfathom

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2023, 05:37:10 am »
Look at Elon Musk- he sacks all those Twitter employess, they go over the Facebook and work on Threads.
Now he's all whaaaaa  “willful” misappropriation of trade secrets, they stole IP! But you fired them dumbass. You don't own people, slave driver.
These guys don't realize that what's in an engineer's head walks out the door and they can't own the guy's brain. Even a big NDA can't take away your right to prosper I've found.

You sound like someone to whom I would never show a new product under nondisclosure.

I know nothing about the Twitter IP thing, but FWIW I do believe in the concept of IP.  If you sign a (legal) contract then you are bound by the terms of that contract.  IP does not include concepts and principals  that are common knowledge in the field, but if you are working on or developing something that is proprietary and unique then your employer has every right to prevent you from taking that with you when you quit or are fired.  You take your employers money, you should abide by the terms of your contract.

And yes, I have quit a few jobs where I was bound by nondisclosure or non-compete terms in my contract.  It didn't mean I couldn't "prosper" as an engineer, I just couldn't use certain methods that had been developed by me or others at the previous company, or work for a direct competitor (for some specified duration.)  And I knew this would be the case when I signed up.

I have also seen how IP agreements can be used unethically.  I've been deposed in a couple of IP/noncompete cases, and it's not pretty and sometimes unfair (claiming common knowledge as IP, where a non-technical jury only knows what the lawyers and judge tells them.)  Perhaps the Twitter case is one of those?
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2023, 06:54:44 am »
Treez/ocset/faringdon appears to be an excellent exemplar of something described by Isaac Asimov in 1957. His novella "Profession" is still worth speedreading.
https://www.inf.ufpr.br/renato/profession.html

The points in that resonated with me when I was a schoolkid, and significantly and positively benefited my career and outlook on life.
Are you sure you read that story? You seem to keep referencing it in contexts where it doesn't fit. The whole point of that story is the vast majority of people are incapable of doing anything really interesting, and the small number of truly creative are hard to recognise. There is nothing the vast majority of people can do about their lot in life. Only the small number of truly creative people can do anything about their lot in life, and really need to, as they can so easily be screwed by the clueless.

Incorrect.

For a start, the protagonists did recognise the truly creative George - because they were specifically looking for that. George didn't recognise it in himself, but that is a completely different issue.

More importantly, the "whole point", ahem, is that there is a difference between those whose
  • aspirations/abilities are limited to working on specific examples of existing equipment,
  • aspirations/abilities transcend that to being able to apply general principles to new conditions
In other words, the difference between production/military training and engineering.

The key section is about 70% of the way through
Quote
... said Trevelyan. “... They've been saying for weeks that the Beeman machine would be used. All the wise money was on Beeman machines. The damned Education tapes they ran through me were for Henslers and who uses Henslers?
...
“Don’t be a fool. They’ll tell me my brain was built for Henslers. Go argue. Everything went wrong. I was the only one who had to send out for a piece of equipment. Notice that?”
...
If it had been a Hensler, I would have known I was right. How could I match up then? The top winner was a San Franciscan. So were three of the next four. And the fifth guy was from Los Angeles. They get big-city Educational tapes. The best available. Beeman spectrographs and all. How do I compete with them? I came all the way out here just to get a chance at a Novian-sponsored Olympics in my classification and I might just as well have stayed home. I knew it, I tell you, and that settles it. Novia isn’t the only chunk of rock in space. Of all the damned –”
...
George said, “If you knew in advance that the Beemans were going to be used, couldn’t you have studied up on them?”

“They weren’t in my tapes, I tell you.”

“You could have read – books.”
...

Faringdon resembles Trevelyan, and seems to be incapable of thinking of being a George.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2023, 06:57:47 am by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2023, 07:02:52 am »
When sifting through piles of CVs it amazes me how many people are deeply impressed by CVs showing a long string of jobs. When you point out this means the candidate offers poor stability they have to agree, but with great reluctance.

Do people really think that? Twits.

When I started it was a common belief that you could reasonably leave a job within 1 month or after 2 years. In between was an orange flag worth investigating.

Nowadays we have the wretched "gig economy" and "hire-and-fire".

It is reasonable for consultants to have had 40 clients, but not employees to have had 40 employers.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2023, 07:09:48 am »
Since the statute of limitations has expired (this was around 2001) I am posting it here.

I didn't realise there is a statute of limitations on libel. The UK has appallingly liberal libel laws, sometimes leading to iniquitous SLAPPs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_public_participation

Otherwise I suspect you are correct.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
The following users thanked this post: Faringdon

Offline hans

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Re: General Analog Electronics companies must stop killing themselves
« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2023, 08:16:49 am »
Hi Guys,
Please could we have an exerpt on “general analog hardware electronics and SMPS” companies stopping damaging themselves?

The owners of such companies are always reluctant to employ new engineers, lest those engineers then run off after seeing the company’s schems and then use them at other companies or competitors….of course, this is total utter nonsense.
This , as you know, is absolute nonsense, having people see the schems , then leave, and work at a competitor,  matters not one jot……pretty much all general analog/SMPS companies use the same circuit theory, and any engineer who can understand the schems in one company, could understand them in all others….so its pointless to worry about engineers joining and then leaving.
I have  worked at over 40 different electronics co’s, but that doesn’t mean I could compete with any of them on the basis of copying their schems….for one thing….I WOULD DEFFO NOT COPY THEIR SCHEMS……..i would always take a customer spec on face value and design fresh for it, using the widely known analog theories that are spewed all over the internet anyways. As you know,  If you copy a schem, then that schem may not have been optimised for its purpose, etc etc.
And why does anyone need to copy a schem anyway?…….it would be like nicking your companies screw drivers so you could use them  at a competitor company……why bother?…just use the screw drivers at the next company….they are the same.

2 points:
- The big players surely copy each other schematics. It's sometimes easier to reverse engineer a competitor product than it is to design and validate your own. And what is even "optimized"? A PSU can be tuned for various parameters, such as noise, pulse response, accuracy, etc. You can bet that if youi copy the PSU design of a LED bulb from your competitor, that they will have exactly the same stake as you have. It's need to be reliable, stable, and cheap. That last part, BOM cost, is more dependant on your own logistics than it is on any technical reason. So perhaps that is where some of the work goes into. Doesn't sound terribly exciting from a designers point of view though.

- PSUs are a commodity. You don't need to hire someone from UK , EU, or US to find someone that can do it. There are many people now in (still-) low-wage countries that are graduating BSc/MSc in EE and can do a similarily fine job. We mandate CE et al. for PSUs to go into products. Ignore the crap you can order via the side channels directly on Aliexpress. Honestly, if something becomes such a big commodity, then that job in the overly expensive west is becoming more difficult to maintain. It needs to add value somewhere.

Now don't get me wrong. Talking in a native language to your customer can be that "added value". There is a huge industry for Wordpress website companies that will put together a website for your local hairdresser that also wants to sell hair products via an e-commerce portal. They will go to a local company that speaks their local language, understands the local payment and shipping procedures, and if necessary the hairdresser can call a local number during local business hours to file a support ticket.
But purely for design, we must embrace the fact that engineering is competing on an international market. Point of sale isn't.

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So please, can we have a representation, to the industrial bodies, that general electronics companies stop damaging themselves by not cycling enough engineers through their company? And stop fretting over engineers coming in, and then leaving. It does zero damage, and because each engineer brings and drops off his/her own spectrum of knowledge, it is actually more beneficial....... The more the number of electronics engineers who have been cycled through any  company, the greater the benefit to that company...the worst electronics companies that you go to, are always those that have only ever employed 1 or 2 electronics engineers....almost inevitably their schems are filled with mistakes, and their failure_return bins are full to overflowing. Thier production failure bins are brimming full.

No way. Businesses need freedom to operate.
In addition, what's bad with engineers going and leaving? It's probably more to do with their individual career paths. Jumping ships is a classic to negiotate a better salary or secondary conditions. Then there may be no way up in a small business. People may get bored with designing PSUs for a dozen years. They may want to get into more managerial jobs, and if those seats are taken, they will also leave.
Now that shouldn't take away any credit we should give to design guru's that are a literal library of knowledge and can make a difference in a design or validation process. If those gurus start leaving, then it signals a bigger issue at that workplace.
 
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