Author Topic: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th  (Read 24173 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline asmi

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2861
  • Country: ca
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #100 on: April 13, 2023, 05:11:43 pm »
So far you did not provide any technical counterarguments, just the runt against the germans in general.
I did provide a fact - industry is leaving because of energy costs. So a rational government would do something to make those costs go down in order to prevent this outflow, but they are shutting down the cheapest and clean source of power - AND turning on the dirtiest one instead. How can one justify that decision, if not by ideology? It seems quite clear to me that it's against the common sense.

Offline shapirus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1721
  • Country: ua
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #101 on: April 13, 2023, 05:19:47 pm »
I did provide a fact - industry is leaving because of energy costs.
Don't forget the cost of labor and the overall business climate.
 

Offline Neutrion

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: hu
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #102 on: April 13, 2023, 05:23:19 pm »
So far you did not provide any technical counterarguments, just the runt against the germans in general.
I did provide a fact - industry is leaving because of energy costs. So a rational government would do something to make those costs go down in order to prevent this outflow, but they are shutting down the cheapest and clean source of power - AND turning on the dirtiest one instead. How can one justify that decision, if not by ideology? It seems quite clear to me that it's against the common sense.
You are mixing up different things.

1.The current nuclear shutdown is stupid, agreed, especially because not even the current german government knows whether the people support this decision.

2.You hwever were arguing that generally running an energy system on renewable not possible, in the near future. That is what we are arguing with, and that is what you can not support with tech. arguments.
If your argument is the prize only and the sort term buisness gains, than Germany should actually start to invest into coal more, because it would be blody cheap.
 
The following users thanked this post: Siwastaja

Offline asmi

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2861
  • Country: ca
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #103 on: April 13, 2023, 05:31:38 pm »
Don't forget the cost of labor and the overall business climate.
But then again - industry is also a big polluter, so if you are into green nonsense, wanting to get rid of it kind of makes sense. Also a fair amount of people will likely follow the industry, so less people - less pollution too.
The question is - is that really in the best interest of the people? I understand when unelected bureaucrats like that infamous van der Moron do this crap - since people didn't elect her, she does not have to act in their interests, but when elected officials act like that - AND get away with it - this is truly mind-boggling to me :palm: Are people really that stupid, or that indocrinated?

Offline Neutrion

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: hu
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #104 on: April 13, 2023, 05:32:41 pm »
Nuclear power plants operate as baseload plants and as load-following power plants. Renewable sources are intermittent and weather- and time-of-day dependent. They are not a replacement for nuclear power.

Shutting down NPPs would either lead to more power generation from coal and natural gas, or result in blackouts.

If only there was some kind of mechanism to store energy.  Ah well, I guess that will never ever be invented, and we'll always need base load.
In the NL the plan is to use hydrogen to store energy. Including to serve as a base load for 2 new NPPs

Do you have numbers to this? I mean MW, price, the the power to gas capacity?

Because if we are taking the H2 plant as given, it would be much cheaper to build renewable for it with an actual much bigger built in max capacity. And if we are talking about some extreme Dunkelflaute situation, than you could have a gas plant in reserve for those very few days in the year.
 

Offline Neutrion

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: hu
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #105 on: April 13, 2023, 05:37:27 pm »
Don't forget the cost of labor and the overall business climate.
But then again - industry is also a big polluter, so if you are into green nonsense, wanting to get rid of it kind of makes sense. Also a fair amount of people will likely follow the industry, so less people - less pollution too.
The question is - is that really in the best interest of the people? I understand when unelected bureaucrats like that infamous van der Moron do this crap - since people didn't elect her, she does not have to act in their interests, but when elected officials act like that - AND get away with it - this is truly mind-boggling to me :palm: Are people really that stupid, or that indocrinated?
If you don't belive in climate change, than your argumentation is valid, but science doesn't support your case
 

Offline Siwastaja

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9336
  • Country: fi
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #106 on: April 13, 2023, 05:42:19 pm »
I did provide a fact - industry is leaving because of energy costs. So a rational government would do something to make those costs go down in order to prevent this outflow, but they are shutting down the cheapest...

So let's stop right there. Nuclear was never the cheapest source of energy, and modern facilities now produce some of the most expensive electrical energy, way more expensive than fossil fuels or wind.

You can make your case only in this marginal case of extending the already existing plants and their permits; which is also what I suggested before you decided to label me as some greenist utopia believer. This works out because the big investments in building the NPPs, recruiting staff etc. are behind, the total cost of ownership won't increase.  All you need are some modest maintenance operations. But you can't do this indefinitely. At some point, you have to make the decision of building completely new nuclear. Finland did, and it was an economic disaster. You can then speculate that oh, you did it the wrong way, but for example the goals for safety design have shifted compared to the golden age of "cheap" nuclear in the 1960's to 1980's. That art is somewhat lost, and nuclear is more expensive to build today.

It's not either-or. Germany's energy policy is a combination of right and wrong decisions, successes and failures, irrational political choices and sensible engineering. Germany can be used both as examples how to do the green shift, and how not to do it.

You would grasp all of this in a second if you just looked at Germany's production curves from the last 20 years with your mind open and draw your own conclusions from the data.

It takes a lot of irrational ideology to believe nuclear energy is the cheapest, cleanest, safest and an overall excellent solution to the energy problems, because it's simply not true. Just like it takes a lot of ideology to decide that under any conditions, running the plants for another decade is that big of a no-no.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2023, 05:45:57 pm by Siwastaja »
 
The following users thanked this post: Someone, Neutrion

Offline asmi

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2861
  • Country: ca
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #107 on: April 13, 2023, 05:48:00 pm »
1.The current nuclear shutdown is stupid, agreed, especially because not even the current german government knows whether the people support this decision.
Well apparently they do, because when even presumably intelligent and well-educated engineers support it, you can guess what common folk's position is.

2.You hwever were arguing that generally running an energy system on renewable not possible, in the near future. That is what we are arguing with, and that is what you can not support with tech. arguments.
If your argument is the prize only and the sort term buisness gains, than Germany should actually start to invest into coal more, because it would be blody cheap.
My tech agrument is very simple - both solar and wind energy ultimately comes from the nuclear fusion, but it's super-inefficient process because of many transformations energy goes through until it's consumed, so converting fusion energy into electric is much more efficient. So this is a long term goal, because at some point humanity will require more energy than reaches the Earth, and so that's the only possible source known at this point.
In the short to mid-term leaving NPPs running not only means having this power available, but also maintaining a cadre of people with nuclear competency. Once NPPs are shut down, these people will either move elsewhere, or will have to change their profession, in both cases competency is lost, and once it's lost, it's going to be very long and expensive to regain.
 
The following users thanked this post: daqq

Offline asmi

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2861
  • Country: ca
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #108 on: April 13, 2023, 06:01:09 pm »
If you don't belive in climate change, than your argumentation is valid, but science doesn't support your case
Science on the climate change is not conclusive, with a lot of fakes and preposterous extrapolations on both sides, which is why I don't have a position either way. But it doesn't really matter, because moving industry from one place to another doesn't change the grand total of pollution, so it has a zero net effect on a climate. As for what I do believe - I believe in science, but real science, not fake one.

Offline Neutrion

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: hu
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #109 on: April 13, 2023, 06:06:01 pm »
1.The current nuclear shutdown is stupid, agreed, especially because not even the current german government knows whether the people support this decision.
Well apparently they do, because when even presumably intelligent and well-educated engineers support it, you can guess what common folk's position is.

2.You hwever were arguing that generally running an energy system on renewable not possible, in the near future. That is what we are arguing with, and that is what you can not support with tech. arguments.
If your argument is the prize only and the sort term buisness gains, than Germany should actually start to invest into coal more, because it would be blody cheap.
My tech agrument is very simple - both solar and wind energy ultimately comes from the nuclear fusion, but it's super-inefficient process because of many transformations energy goes through until it's consumed, so converting fusion energy into electric is much more efficient. So this is a long term goal, because at some point humanity will require more energy than reaches the Earth, and so that's the only possible source known at this point.
In the short to mid-term leaving NPPs running not only means having this power available, but also maintaining a cadre of people with nuclear competency. Once NPPs are shut down, these people will either move elsewhere, or will have to change their profession, in both cases competency is lost, and once it's lost, it's going to be very long and expensive to regain.

First, I did not hear many german engineers supporting the current shutdown, not even Greta supports it. Habeck, and the smart Ms Baerbock are not engineers. Edit:(Although I have to recognize Ms Baerbock still managed to make the russians do a 360 grade turn.)

If I understand your way of thinking, you mean until we get the fusion energy, we should keep the current NPP's running. Well, that will not go for indefinite time, and certainly not with most of the NPP being over 40 years old.  As for building new ones see Siwastaja's comment!

Keeping the competence: The competences for those mostly old plants will not be needed for even the new ones, and you can't have those people living forever either.
Or do you have something like scools in Canada where you teach every citizen how to mine coal by hand?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2023, 06:23:41 pm by Neutrion »
 

Offline Neutrion

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: hu
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #110 on: April 13, 2023, 06:12:41 pm »
If you don't belive in climate change, than your argumentation is valid, but science doesn't support your case
Science on the climate change is not conclusive, with a lot of fakes and preposterous extrapolations on both sides, which is why I don't have a position either way. But it doesn't really matter, because moving industry from one place to another doesn't change the grand total of pollution, so it has a zero net effect on a climate. As for what I do believe - I believe in science, but real science, not fake one.
Well than this shoul be another debate whether climate change is caused by humans or not so off topic here, but you can open a topic for it. In the last 20 years an enormous amount of research went into this, and there is only a very few percent chance that it is not caused by humans.
The few percent chance will be there forever, as we don't have many Earths to run the simulations over and over again, to have 100% results.
 

Offline asmi

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2861
  • Country: ca
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #111 on: April 13, 2023, 06:33:18 pm »
First, I did not hear many german engineers supporting the current shutdown, not even Greta supports it. Habeck, and the smart Ms Baerbock are not engineers.
I don't hear nor see many people speaking against it. And I don't mean in MSM - they are the propaganda machine, so obviously they will push the "right" narrative, but anecdotally from people I know directly or indirectly, but trust enough to reflect their actual opinion. Those few who are against it, just packing up and leaving, but in my circle all of those people were immigrants and not native Germans. So honestly I don't know what else to think :-//

If I understand your way of thinking, you mean until we get the fusion energy, we should keep the current NPP's running. Well, that will not go for indefinite time, and certainly not with most of the NPP being over 40 years old.  As for building new ones see Siwastaja's comment!

Keeping the competence: The competences for those mostly old plants will not be needed for even the new ones, and you can't have those people living forever either.
Or do you have something like scools in Canada where you teach every citizen how to mine coal by hand?
A lot in nuclear fission competence will be applicable to fusion power plants when we will get there, also as I mentioned before fast breeders not only provide power, but also allow getting rid of old nuclear waste, so in my opinion their somewhat higher price is justified because of that aspect.
Another aspect to it is that it's not just operational competense, but also scientific one, which tends to follow NPPs, especially if those plants are actually designed in the country, and not just purchased elsewhere as a turnkey solution. Do you know where the most of somewhat recent super-heavy elements were first synthesized? Do you think it's an accident that the country has been quite active in the NPPs construction?
 
The following users thanked this post: daqq

Offline asmi

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2861
  • Country: ca
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #112 on: April 13, 2023, 06:36:27 pm »
Well than this shoul be another debate whether climate change is caused by humans or not so off topic here, but you can open a topic for it. In the last 20 years an enormous amount of research went into this, and there is only a very few percent chance that it is not caused by humans.
The few percent chance will be there forever, as we don't have many Earths to run the simulations over and over again, to have 100% results.
My point is that climate argument is irrelevant when we're talking about moving industry from one place to another, because it doesn't change the total amount of pollution. Unless you also happen to believe that those climate changes can somehow be restricted to country borders.

Offline mendip_discovery

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1024
  • Country: gb
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #113 on: April 13, 2023, 06:48:27 pm »
My point is that climate argument is irrelevant when we're talking about moving industry from one place to another, because it doesn't change the total amount of pollution. Unless you also happen to believe that those climate changes can somehow be restricted to country borders.

Whenever I think of stuff like this I always go back to that brilliant interview with Dave's cousin.


They are just moving the problem outside of the environment.
Motorcyclist, Nerd, and I work in a Calibration Lab :-)
--
So everyone is clear, Calibration = Taking Measurement against a known source, Verification = Checking Calibration against Specification, Adjustment = Adjusting the unit to be within specifications.
 

Offline langwadt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4857
  • Country: dk
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #114 on: April 13, 2023, 07:33:38 pm »
Well than this shoul be another debate whether climate change is caused by humans or not so off topic here, but you can open a topic for it. In the last 20 years an enormous amount of research went into this, and there is only a very few percent chance that it is not caused by humans.
The few percent chance will be there forever, as we don't have many Earths to run the simulations over and over again, to have 100% results.
My point is that climate argument is irrelevant when we're talking about moving industry from one place to another, because it doesn't change the total amount of pollution. Unless you also happen to believe that those climate changes can somehow be restricted to country borders.

kinda sums it up, https://youtu.be/zJdqJu-6ZPo?t=156
 

Offline MT

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1687
  • Country: aq
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #115 on: April 13, 2023, 07:54:47 pm »
Dr. Patrick Moore-- Co-Founder and former President of Greenpeace, Director of the CO2 Coalition, Senior Fellow of The Heartland Institute, and author of "Fake Invisible Catastrophes and Threats of Doom"

 

Online SiliconWizard

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15800
  • Country: fr
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #116 on: April 13, 2023, 08:03:52 pm »
So far you did not provide any technical counterarguments, just the runt against the germans in general.
I did provide a fact - industry is leaving because of energy costs. So a rational government would do something to make those costs go down in order to prevent this outflow, but they are shutting down the cheapest and clean source of power - AND turning on the dirtiest one instead. How can one justify that decision, if not by ideology? It seems quite clear to me that it's against the common sense.
You are mixing up different things.

1.The current nuclear shutdown is stupid, agreed, especially because not even the current german government knows whether the people support this decision.

It's obvious that it's an entirely political decision which has nothing to do with any kind of engineering.

The goal is twofold:
1. By creating a drastic energy deficit, *forcing* *at all costs* the switch to cleaner sources, with the idea that if we force it, it will happen. Sure.
2. Complying with some ideology.

2.You hwever were arguing that generally running an energy system on renewable not possible, in the near future.

I also think it's just not possible in any near future. Just fricking do the maths with any kind of existing tech and what is reasonably possible.

You (and people making the same claims) are somehow reversing the burden of the proof by asking people to prove that it's not possible, when basic facts and evidence is all over the place, while claiming something that is backed only by speculation and fantasy at this point. Unless maybe you have a very elastic definition of "near future", of course.
 

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 18118
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #117 on: April 13, 2023, 09:01:26 pm »
Dr. Patrick Moore-- Co-Founder and former President of Greenpeace, Director of the CO2 Coalition, Senior Fellow of The Heartland Institute, and author of "Fake Invisible Catastrophes and Threats of Doom"



Is this the bit where he takes a graph, takes 1% of it out and shows that instead of the whole thing to prove the temperature is going down instead of up? Clever bloke. If I remember rightly he is also the guy that said a weedkiller is so safe he'd drink it, when the interviewer produced a bottle of it he promptly swore and abandoned the interview and I think his weedkiller making client that was paying him a lot?
 
The following users thanked this post: tom66

Offline tom66

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7336
  • Country: gb
  • Electronics Hobbyist & FPGA/Embedded Systems EE
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #118 on: April 13, 2023, 09:09:40 pm »
Is this the bit where he takes a graph, takes 1% of it out and shows that instead of the whole thing to prove the temperature is going down instead of up? Clever bloke. If I remember rightly he is also the guy that said a weedkiller is so safe he'd drink it, when the interviewer produced a bottle of it he promptly swore and abandoned the interview and I think his weedkiller making client that was paying him a lot?

Mmm yep...


"You can drink a whole glass of it" ... "I'd be happy to drink a whole glass of it"
"I'm not doing that, I'm not an idiot"

Yeah, the guy is pretty discredited.

My guess is he realised he could make more money going to the "dark side" than following along with Greenpeace.  It is odd, though!
 
The following users thanked this post: NiHaoMike

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 18118
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #119 on: April 13, 2023, 09:14:35 pm »
I don't think that it is only your argument that is simple. You seem to dominate this discussion to the point that I have several reports complaining about you. From the little I have time to read of your output you are just talking nonesense. Maybe back some of it up with facts?


My tech agrument is very simple - both solar and wind energy ultimately comes from the nuclear fusion, but it's super-inefficient process because of many transformations energy goes through until it's consumed, so converting fusion energy into electric is much more efficient.

Your point being? the nature of how the sun produces the energy and it's efficiency is rather irrelevant. We don't have to put fuel into the sun last time I checked. Perhaps you can enlighten us?


So this is a long term goal, because at some point humanity will require more energy than reaches the Earth, and so that's the only possible source known at this point.

Will we? again where do you get this knowledge from? You know how much energy we will need in the future? do you know how much energy we receive from the sun?


In the short to mid-term leaving NPPs running not only means having this power available, but also maintaining a cadre of people with nuclear competency. Once NPPs are shut down, these people will either move elsewhere, or will have to change their profession, in both cases competency is lost, and once it's lost, it's going to be very long and expensive to regain.

You seem to be talking about fusion as though it is already here. In case you missed it, we currently use fission, fusion will be here in 30 years, or so they have been telling us for over 30 years I beleive.

 

Offline asmi

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2861
  • Country: ca
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #120 on: April 13, 2023, 10:05:51 pm »
I don't think that it is only your argument that is simple. You seem to dominate this discussion to the point that I have several reports complaining about you.
That is not unexpected and is very reminicent of a certain group of people who's only means to win an argument is to silence the opposition. Because they know they can't ever win a rational debate due to lack of rational arguments.

From the little I have time to read of your output you are just talking nonesense.
That is a rather bold claim bordering on insult. Care to back it up with something such that it won't look like abuse of power?

Your point being? the nature of how the sun produces the energy and it's efficiency is rather irrelevant. We don't have to put fuel into the sun last time I checked. Perhaps you can enlighten us?
Again - I did, read below. And yes it is relevant.

Will we? again where do you get this knowledge from? You know how much energy we will need in the future? do you know how much energy we receive from the sun?
ALL energy we receive ultimately came from the Sun in one way or another. But energy consumption will only grow, because that is the metric of civilizational development, so at some point it will overtake anything that Sun can provide us no matter how large that amount is. If you want a proof that energy consumption will only ever grow, look at entire history of humankind. All technological advances hinged on using more and more energy. There is no historical precedent when that wasn't the case.

You seem to be talking about fusion as though it is already here. In case you missed it, we currently use fission, fusion will be here in 30 years, or so they have been telling us for over 30 years I beleive.
If you lose the nuclear competence, you will NEVER get to fusion. It's that simple. But others will, because they are more forward-looking and strategic. You can guess what happens next by looking at the last say 500 years of the history.
 
The following users thanked this post: daqq

Offline Someone

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5156
  • Country: au
    • send complaints here
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #121 on: April 13, 2023, 10:24:13 pm »
2.You hwever were arguing that generally running an energy system on renewable not possible, in the near future.
I also think it's just not possible in any near future. Just fricking do the maths with any kind of existing tech and what is reasonably possible.

You (and people making the same claims) are somehow reversing the burden of the proof by asking people to prove that it's not possible, when basic facts and evidence is all over the place, while claiming something that is backed only by speculation and fantasy at this point.
It has been possible for decades, but at an unpalatable cost. Right now with proven and existing technology the cheapest electricity is from renewables, even up to 100% in all but extreme corner cases (still possible but no longer the cheapest option).

So we're past the point of wondering if it can be done at all, to wondering why it isn't happening faster... given that renewable energy is now the lowest cost option.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source
Pretty much only America is still holding onto the dream of cheaply available gas.
 
The following users thanked this post: tom66

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21611
  • Country: us
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #122 on: April 13, 2023, 10:46:53 pm »
If you don't belive in climate change, than your argumentation is valid, but science doesn't support your case
Science on the climate change is not conclusive, with a lot of fakes and preposterous extrapolations on both sides, which is why I don't have a position either way. But it doesn't really matter, because moving industry from one place to another doesn't change the grand total of pollution, so it has a zero net effect on a climate. As for what I do believe - I believe in science, but real science, not fake one.

I think it's pretty clear that humans have contributed to climate change. I think it's also pretty clear that it's totally unrealistic to do much of anything about it unless somebody invents a time machine. The damage has been already done, and even if we completely stop burning fossil fuels, the developing world will just pick up the slack. The most optimistic studies I've read make it sound pretty hopeless.
 

Offline Siwastaja

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9336
  • Country: fi
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #123 on: April 14, 2023, 05:36:42 am »
I also think it's just not possible in any near future. Just fricking do the maths with any kind of existing tech and what is reasonably possible.

You (and people making the same claims) are somehow reversing the burden of the proof by asking people to prove that it's not possible, when basic facts and evidence is all over the place, while claiming something that is backed only by speculation and fantasy at this point. Unless maybe you have a very elastic definition of "near future", of course.

This is all meaningless BS if you don't clearly define what is being claimed and discussed. Your commentary would be valid and agreeable if the target is to completely stop using any fossil fuels at all. But is anyone else except yourself (and your like-minded) discussing this? Sounds like a classic strawman argument to me.

You are basically saying "this is impossible, prove otherwise", without defining what this refers to. Childish way to discuss IMHO.

Zero fossil target plays especially badly when you couple it to the "nuclear good" mindset, because as I explained, nuclear needs significant amount of supporting fossil fuels, just like the renewables of today.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2023, 05:38:48 am by Siwastaja »
 

Offline daqqTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2321
  • Country: sk
    • My site
Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #124 on: April 14, 2023, 08:35:23 am »
This!  So true.

In the UK, in 2013, the installed wind capacity was around 10GW.  Now, in 2023, it is approaching 30GW.

On a particularly gusty day we are already looking at all night time load being wind provided, and within another decade it is possible there will be weeks when renewable energy is providing power exclusively.
Capacity is not the same as power. Installing 100GW of renewables capacity is not the same as being able to shut down 100GW worth of other sources.

edit: As to storage, see: https://carboncounter.wordpress.com/2013/07/10/can-the-uk-get-100-of-its-electricity-from-wind-farms/

See attachments (yes, possibly cherrypicked data, but quite realistic scenarios):
« Last Edit: April 14, 2023, 08:40:42 am by daqq »
Believe it or not, pointy haired people do exist!
+++Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot +++
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf