General > General Technical Chat
Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
JPortici:
--- Quote from: Neutrion on April 14, 2023, 12:04:42 pm ---
--- Quote from: daqq on April 14, 2023, 11:34:28 am ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on April 14, 2023, 10:25:22 am ---Well, aluminium can be made anywhere.
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Yes. So can everything else. That's kind of my point.
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It is a valid point, and it happened in the last 30 years with many industrial stuff. The reason why China is the biggest polluter is actually because we outsourced our pollution there, and even now their pollution pro person is much lower than peolple in the EU or US.
And that is why the green import taxes are going to be needed, and they are in planning as far as I know. So companies can move, but than soon they can only sell their products to elswhere.
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Screw that. we need to be able to be as independent as we can. This means that we must be able to manufacture as much as we can and bring productions inside the EU instead of outsource everything but the highest margin products. People need to eat, stay warm and have a roof on their head. We are still paying the price for relying on cheap russian gas (and cheap north africa gas as well). I'd rather rely on canada's and australia's uranium
MT:
--- Quote from: Simon on April 13, 2023, 09:01:26 pm ---Is this the bit where he takes a graph, takes 1% of it out and shows that instead of the whole thing to prove the temperature is going down instead of up?
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You need to do your home work about "global climate change" made by the sun etc and not all the time buy into "Schwab/WEF man made crap". Begin with the Younger Dryas, Holocene etc ice core graph.
shapirus:
--- Quote from: JPortici on April 14, 2023, 05:38:46 pm ---Screw that. we need to be able to be as independent as we can. This means that we must be able to manufacture as much as we can
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Meaning, first of all, weapons and ammunition of every type.
And, of course, hundreds of thousands of UAVs of various sizes and purposes. Can the EU countries produce at least one without depending on Chinese components? ICs? Sensors? PCBs? Batteries? Motors?
--- Quote from: JPortici on April 14, 2023, 05:38:46 pm ---People need to eat, stay warm and have a roof on their head.
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This is important, but not worth anything before you are able to quickly produce large quantities of weapons and ammunition wherewith to defend everything else.
tom66:
--- Quote from: MT on April 14, 2023, 05:52:08 pm ---
--- Quote from: Simon on April 13, 2023, 09:01:26 pm ---Is this the bit where he takes a graph, takes 1% of it out and shows that instead of the whole thing to prove the temperature is going down instead of up?
--- End quote ---
You need to do your home work about "global climate change" made by the sun etc and not all the time buy into "Schwab/WEF man made crap". Begin with the Younger Dryas, Holocene etc ice core graph.
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I'm not sure about that source of data, but regardless, it isn't really the magnitude of the change in temperature, but the rate at which it changes. If after 1,000 years the earth is 1C warmer on average, it stands to reason that life and ecosystems may be able to adapt. When people talk about the MWP that's what they reference. But in our situation we're looking at <100 years for >3-4C warming. It's unpredecedented. Outside of the mass extinction event that was due to a meteor impact, we have never seen such a rate of change before.
And I haven't heard anyone saying we won't be able to adapt - it's more like the cost of adapting will be extremely significant if we unlock things like feedback loops. Such costs could include widescale famine and deaths of upwards of a billion people. Change now is better than being forced to do things later, and has a significantly reduced human cost. And the best bit is, we can actually do it, it isn't impossible, as much as the fossil fuel industry and climate deniers like to state.
This XKCD comic puts it into perspective nicely:
https://xkcd.com/1732/
james_s:
--- Quote from: tom66 on April 14, 2023, 10:25:22 am ---Well, aluminium can be made anywhere. But EU should apply a carbon tax on any aluminium that is not made with renewable energy. Such policies are already in discussion at committee level - imported carbon tax etc.
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How do they know?
China can always say "oh yeah this alminum you're buying was made with 100% renewable energy" and since it's half the price of the "same" thing offered by anyone else, somebody buys it.
I'm all for trying to keep the environment clean, but I do think a lot of our efforts to do so result in just moving the pollution somewhere else. Arguably better for us than having it in our own town but not really better for the planet as a whole.
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