Author Topic: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th  (Read 24118 times)

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Offline daqqTopic starter

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In its continuing efforts to shoot themselves and everyone around them in the foot or head, Germany will be shutting down their last remaining nuclear, which are fully functional and could operate for decades more. Around 4GW worth of power will be replaced by coal power plants (lignite), gas and random power generators (renewables), making their power generation somehow greener.
Believe it or not, pointy haired people do exist!
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Offline Siwastaja

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2023, 05:36:29 am »
One could have thought that the recent events would have opened Germany's eyes regarding the political stability and political safety of fossil fuels. One could have thought because Germany totally lost their credibility and face, they would now compensate by correcting their errors. While not a huge fan of nuclear (which is not as simple as nuclear fanboys make it sound like), I was genuinely expecting Germany to announce reopening of some NPPs due to the realities; or at very least cancellation of plans to shut down any operational unit within next 5-10 years.

But it seems they are doing the exact opposite. What a joke. Everybody's laughing at Germany and what do they do - make their energy policy even more ridiculous. Which is sad, because Germany's energy policy "green shift" has been success as a whole, despite some problems. Why amplify the problems? Is this some kind of suicidal act?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2023, 05:39:09 am by Siwastaja »
 
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2023, 05:43:45 am »
That's nice. You're saying that just because you don't want to save the planet.
The solar panels on railways will do the trick and we'll just come back here with our tail between our legs.
 :-DD
 

Offline Xena E

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2023, 05:54:55 am »
Let me explain:

It is to ensure German continued reliance on imported Russian gas. It's was the only sensible thing to do... :palm:

(The clinically stupid are obviously in charge in Germany too.)

 :popcorn:
 
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Offline BravoV

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2023, 06:10:11 am »
Let me explain:

It is to ensure German continued reliance on imported Russian gas. It's was the only sensible thing to do... :palm:

(The clinically stupid are obviously in charge in Germany too.)

 :popcorn:

Yep, its much better to rely on the "freedom & democracy molecules"  ::) gas from US, that cost 6 times more expensive than those evil Russian's gas.  :-DD

The German's de-industrialization in going fast and scary, almost like an avalanche, and one of my close friend who works with BASF (one of the giant chemical industry in the world) is now preparing to move to China as their company is moving majority of their factories to China, nice eh ?  :-DD
 
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Offline jfiresto

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2023, 06:11:41 am »
In its continuing efforts to shoot themselves and everyone around them in the foot or head, Germany will be shutting down their last remaining nuclear, which are fully functional and could operate for decades more. Around 4GW worth of power will be replaced by coal power plants (lignite), gas and random power generators (renewables), making their power generation somehow greener.
Well, the people who have been making such decisions are not into details, and are even less interested in validating and verifying their beliefs and claims. It will be interesting to see how things turn out, but this is not an experiment I would run on an entire country and its people.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2023, 06:13:31 am by jfiresto »
-John
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2023, 06:20:16 am »
.... but this is not an experiment I would run on an entire country and its people.

What country ? Its more like it will affect and drag down the whole EU countries, as its not so secret that its the German industrial might and the depth of the German's pocket, who support and bear "the whole" EU leeches ... errr .. EU countries.  :-DD

Once the main cash cow is dried ...  >:D

Offline mendip_discovery

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2023, 06:50:44 am »
The UK turned off one of its Nuclear plants recently. They are building a new one but that wont be working for a few years. They said that the site had got to the end of its expected lifespan and if they were to continue even just for a extra year or two they would be into having to weigh up the risks of something going wrong. This may partly be down to issues around getting the go ahead to build the new one as it had been left in limbo for a good 5 years. If they had decided to go ahead earlier then it would have been working by now.

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Offline iMo

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2023, 08:23:19 am »
In its continuing efforts to shoot themselves and everyone around them in the foot or head, Germany will be shutting down their last remaining nuclear, which are fully functional and could operate for decades more. Around 4GW worth of power will be replaced by coal power plants (lignite), gas and random power generators (renewables), making their power generation somehow greener.
Well, the people who have been making such decisions are not into details, and are even less interested in validating and verifying their beliefs and claims. It will be interesting to see how things turn out, but this is not an experiment I would run on an entire country and its people.
Perhaps they fixed the North Stream pipeline already??
Readers discretion is advised..
 

Offline jonovid

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2023, 04:20:18 pm »
 :palm:
Hobbyist with a basic knowledge of electronics
 

Online langwadt

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2023, 05:03:14 pm »
One could have thought that the recent events would have opened Germany's eyes regarding the political stability and political safety of fossil fuels. One could have thought because Germany totally lost their credibility and face, they would now compensate by correcting their errors. While not a huge fan of nuclear (which is not as simple as nuclear fanboys make it sound like), I was genuinely expecting Germany to announce reopening of some NPPs due to the realities; or at very least cancellation of plans to shut down any operational unit within next 5-10 years.

afaiu it is not so simple to cancel shutdowns or reopening plants
 

Online I wanted a rude username

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2023, 05:11:02 pm »
One could have thought that the recent events would have opened Germany's eyes regarding the political stability and political safety of fossil fuels.

And on top of that, they had a credible excuse to keep this sustainable energy generation running in the face of uninformed demands to replace it with a basket of intermittent sources. The initial plan to phase out nuclear generation had been folly, but to do so now is a razor's edge away from outright malice.
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2023, 05:39:22 pm »
Let me explain:

It is to ensure German continued reliance on imported Russian gas. It's was the only sensible thing to do... :palm:
No, it is to keep German people working by digging up coal from the soil. Germany has huge coal reserves. Fortunately winds are mostly coming from the North so all the SO2 blows to France and Italy.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Xena E

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2023, 06:19:29 pm »
Free sulpher dioxide to inhale, how very considerate of them...
 

Online langwadt

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2023, 07:13:23 pm »
Free sulpher dioxide to inhale, how very considerate of them...

modern powerplants have scrubbers and filter, but that doesn't do anything about CO2
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2023, 07:23:56 pm »
Free sulpher dioxide to inhale, how very considerate of them...

modern powerplants have scrubbers and filter, but that doesn't do anything about CO2
People keeping saying / writing this but the (f)actual truth is that the concentrations of SO2 produced by coal power plants are still hazardous for people. As in people die prematurely from emissions from coal power plants. Worldwide you are talking about close to a million people per year, every year (according to the WHO).

The filters don't work for 100%, not even close. Maybe 50% or so. The problem is that you can't run a coal fired power plant cost effectively if you filter SO2 to a safe level. Just look up the SO2 emissions due to electricity generation and do the math.

Bottom line: it is sheer madness to still run coal fired power plants. Especially when you have nuclear power plants on hand that are ready to go. Coal fired power plants have killed more people in the Netherlands than the worst (but realistic) casualty estimations for the Chernobyl nuclear dissaster.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2023, 07:28:39 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Online langwadt

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2023, 07:53:08 pm »
Free sulpher dioxide to inhale, how very considerate of them...

modern powerplants have scrubbers and filter, but that doesn't do anything about CO2
People keeping saying / writing this but the (f)actual truth is that the concentrations of SO2 produced by coal power plants are still hazardous for people. As in people die prematurely from emissions from coal power plants. Worldwide you are talking about close to a million people per year, every year (according to the WHO).

The filters don't work for 100%, not even close. Maybe 50% or so. The problem is that you can't run a coal fired power plant cost effectively if you filter SO2 to a safe level. Just look up the SO2 emissions due to electricity generation and do the math.

the local power plant here is ~20mg SO2 per kWh

Bottom line: it is sheer madness to still run coal fired power plants. Especially when you have nuclear power plants on hand that are ready to go. Coal fired power plants have killed more people in the Netherlands than the worst (but realistic) casualty estimations for the Chernobyl nuclear dissaster.

it is like people scared of flying
 
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Offline daqqTopic starter

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2023, 08:02:12 pm »
In its continuing efforts to shoot themselves and everyone around them in the foot or head, Germany will be shutting down their last remaining nuclear, which are fully functional and could operate for decades more. Around 4GW worth of power will be replaced by coal power plants (lignite), gas and random power generators (renewables), making their power generation somehow greener.
Well, the people who have been making such decisions are not into details, and are even less interested in validating and verifying their beliefs and claims. It will be interesting to see how things turn out, but this is not an experiment I would run on an entire country and its people.
Dude, you're from Germany. Can you explain, how to say it, what the actual f*uck? What's up with the anti-nuclear hysteria in your country? Is it prevalent amongst the population or just those in power?
Believe it or not, pointy haired people do exist!
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Offline Ian.M

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« Last Edit: April 09, 2023, 08:14:37 pm by Ian.M »
 

Offline mendip_discovery

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2023, 08:41:06 pm »
If you can find it in your country try
Guy Martin's Great British Power Trip - https://www.channel4.com/programmes/guy-martins-great-british-power-trip

It is a recent program about power generation. The chap is a motorcycle racer but at heart a mechanic and he loves to work stuff out. He still has ridden faster on a bicycle than most people have gone in a car 112.94 mph (181.76 km/h).

Motorcyclist, Nerd, and I work in a Calibration Lab :-)
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Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2023, 08:50:47 pm »
I have always believed that ALL politicians, regardless of filiation or which country they belong, that their acts and legislation are always driven by a political agenda, rather than a legitimate care for their people.

Political agenda is a synonym for personal gain.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2023, 09:08:13 pm »
Dude, you're from Germany. Can you explain, how to say it, what the actual f*uck? What's up with the anti-nuclear hysteria in your country? Is it prevalent amongst the population or just those in power?
FWIW, I’ve worked with many Germans over the years and while it’s not a universal sentiment among them, it’s a very common position. :( The ones with education in hard sciences and medicine seem to be much less anti-nuclear in my experience.

(Right now I’m working in the physics department of a university, and while there are many Germans, including my boss (who is in charge of nuclear safety, all the radiation sources, etc) they tend to fall more on the pro-nuclear side of things so it’s a bit of a reprieve from the hysteria at the moment! :p)
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2023, 09:15:29 pm »
Is this some kind of suicidal act?

Europe in general is committing suicide. Discussing the reasons probably doesn't quite fit in a EE forum. :popcorn:
 
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Offline m98

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2023, 09:27:55 pm »
Dude, you're from Germany. Can you explain, how to say it, what the actual f*uck? What's up with the anti-nuclear hysteria in your country? Is it prevalent amongst the population or just those in power?
Basically, people get indoctrinated against nuclear power from a young age, and don't dare to question that belief as that's very socially frowned upon. Also read: https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20221101-the-cloud-the-nuclear-novel-that-shaped-germany
 
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Offline Xena E

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Re: Germany shutting down last nuclear power plants on April 15th
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2023, 10:43:42 pm »
the local power plant here is ~20mg SO2 per kWh
This:
Putting into perspective the SO² ... just picking a random European power plant. Scholven power station produces approximately 90 tonnes of SO² per hour at maximum generation and  just under half that is removed by electrostatic scrubbers giving ≈45 tonnes/hour... that works backwards nicely fitting the 20mg/kWh...

Other facts to consider:

The same plant also produces more than 10 million tonnes of carbon dioxide each year.

The three worst offenders in and around Europe are first Germany; second Poland; and third the UK... the UK and Germany have between them two thirds of the 30 worst poluting power plants in Europe which is an absolute farce as both countries have the most vocal aspirations about improvement in their green credentials.

The UK is at least intent on increasing its baseline of nuke generation.

All the above is just seemingly arbitrary statistics,  so how about this:

Every year in Europe there are:
28 million cases of lower respiratory tract infections,
4million lost days of work, and, 18,500, premature deaths,
Attributed to atmospheric polution.

The policy in Germany, is I'm afraid just further proof that goverments are prepared to bend to unfounded opinions rather than logic to remain in power.
Said it before, just proof the world is run by idiocracy.
People is stupid.
 


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