| General > General Technical Chat |
| Glitterbomb vs scammers |
| << < (6/7) > >> |
| ve7xen:
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on March 23, 2021, 04:16:25 am --- Are you saying "natural justice" is the way to go? That's the kind of thing that leads people to take the law into their own hands... I know of instances where miscreants were given rough justice because the "victim" didn't think it worth wasting time making police complaints, and preferred dealing with the problem in a more, ahem, direct fashion... - you get enough people thinking like that, and pretty soon you'll have your country ruled by the Mafia, who will take care of injustices in their own inimitable way.... --- End quote --- I am saying that if all you do is arrest the first connected person you find and throw them in jail (or more likely community service), you're never going to have any effect on the root cause, the number of victims, or the people actually profiting from the scam/drugs. Doing anything meaningful to address the problem requires harder work, which most likely doesn't focus on finding low-level money mules who have plausible deniability and don't really know what they're even a part of. Poor people in America looking to make an easy buck aren't the problem here. People's need for vengeance is the root of many problems in society. I don't have any solution for that, but it's not very productive. |
| daqq:
--- Quote from: ve7xen on March 23, 2021, 08:03:51 am ---...who have plausible deniability and don't really know what they're even a part of. Poor people in America looking to make an easy buck aren't the problem here. People's need for vengeance is the root of many problems in society. I don't have any solution for that, but it's not very productive. --- End quote --- Poor people trying to make an easy buck aren't a problem. The problem is when they do so by means of participating in (organised) crime. As to not knowing what they are a part of... seriously? In what conceivable Universe is someone that dumb that they believe that there is a legitimate reason why someone would want them to: - Rent a room somewhere where they never actually go aside from receiving a package. - Receive a package there. - Give the cash contents of said package to someone else. - Get hundreds of USD for this service. No, they know very well that they are a part of something illegal and that at some point of the chain is someone being made to suffer. I'm not saying that they should be executed for said service, but at the very least a few months in prison or a hefty fine should be applied. And no, the argument "I'm poor so it's okay for me to steal from grannies." is not valid. |
| ve7xen:
--- Quote from: daqq on March 23, 2021, 08:50:32 am ---Poor people trying to make an easy buck aren't a problem. The problem is when they do so by means of participating in (organised) crime. --- End quote --- The problem is the organized crime. There's no end of poor people trying to make an easy buck, and arresting an endless stream of them for delivering packages is not productive, you will never eliminate the tools of such organizations, at least without devolving into despotism. You need to strike at the head, or take away their means of profit (by protecting victims, for example). --- Quote ---As to not knowing what they are a part of... seriously? In what conceivable Universe is someone that dumb that they believe that there is a legitimate reason why someone would want them to: --- End quote --- I didn't say that. I said they have plausible deniability, which is generally understood to mean they know what they are doing but evidence to prove it doesn't exist. They don't open the packages. They aren't doing anything illegal aside from under reporting income. Ergo, arresting them probably doesn't even lead to charges, let alone convictions. And even if it did, the person you caught is a disposable tool of the organization and will be easily replaced with another of the aforementioned endless stream. --- Quote ---No, they know very well that they are a part of something illegal and that at some point of the chain is someone being made to suffer. I'm not saying that they should be executed for said service, but at the very least a few months in prison or a hefty fine should be applied. --- End quote --- Sure, but you will not solve this by arresting yet more poor people and throwing them in prison. Do you want solutions, or vengeance? Arresting low-level couriers isn't, and has never been, a solution to organized crime. --- Quote ---And no, the argument "I'm poor so it's okay for me to steal from grannies." is not valid. --- End quote --- Of course it's not, but you do get a lot fewer thieves when fewer people are poor. It doesn't make it okay, but if you care about reducing crime and not simply punishing criminals after the crime has occurred, it is a huge factor. |
| SilverSolder:
--- Quote from: ve7xen on March 23, 2021, 08:03:51 am ---[...] People's need for vengeance is the root of many problems in society. I don't have any solution for that, but it's not very productive. --- End quote --- It is a part of the human condition... just like thieving. So, if you don't think it helps to do anything about low level thieves, you probably don't think it helps to do anything about vengeance either. I guess your position could be called fatalist? |
| james_s:
You don't have to throw them in prison for 10 years, but ignoring low level thieves encourages them because it doesn't take very long for people to realize that there are no consequences to helping themselves to someone else's stuff so they keep doing it, and more people join them. The impact adds up too, maybe it doesn't create a big hardship when someone steals $50 from somebody, but multiply that by the 50-100 or more victims over time and all the ancillary costs like frustration and a feeling of insecurity and pretty soon it's a pretty serious impact to the community. A large enough number of minor crimes can have a cumulative impact as big as a major crime. |
| Navigation |
| Message Index |
| Next page |
| Previous page |