GM walking away from Australia

[tautech]

I don't think I would have liked to drive the thing around Bathurst. It went there, tho.

Actually Bathurst results of late may have driven GM out of Oz with Mustang's taking away the prize money and whatsmore, driven by a Kiwi !
The straw that broke the camel's back ? 

[Ed.Kloonk]

Is it honestly that big of a shock? Holden/GM pulled out of manufacturing in Australia quite some time ago. To pull the brand entirely isn't a surprise.

Holden have been making mediocre cars for decades. There is nothing special about them. Even their over-priced sports utilities or 8-cylinder sedans are just loud, obnoxious cars for bogans (with equally loud and rattly interiors) which aren't really all that fast compared to equally priced European cars.

Walk into any Toyota, Kia, Mazda or Hyundai dealer and you'll get far better bang-for-buck plus a much longer warranty and better dealer support.

No, many of us saw it coming. It was no secret.

I think you have to realise that with the Kingwood and the earlier commys had the ability to always get you home. It's has been forgotten.

The newfangled Japanese cars in the '80s, as reliable as they were sure, they were awfully more complicated. With the Holden, you get it home and you could fix it.

Then that commy that came out with front wheel drive, it was a dogs breakfast. A lot of people, including myself would buy a new one every other model. I still have the last one with the rear diff. Been all round the county and got the scars to prove it.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Why, because they weren't considered cool ! 
If they'd been raced around Bathurst everyone would want one ! 

My one might not have been cool but it was like Grandma's feather bed. (Didn't get a lot of sleep, but I had a lot of fun)

I don't think I would have liked to drive the thing around Bathurst. It went there, tho.

Stick a big fin on them like a Brute and what's the problem ?
Know too many that have been killed in high power Aussie utes.   

Too light in the arse end.

Exactly. Some would have 100kg of bagged sand in the back to keep them on our windy roads and to make for a fast getaway at the lights.   

I just found out that the VK was assembled in NZ. Never knew that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Commodore_(VK)

Yep for many years until quite recently. Commies were very popular here and you still see lots around and lately late model V8's.....for those that can afford to feed them. 

Old joke
Where can you get a Commodore ?
Off a Commer van ! 

Could be worse, get taken out by a stray plastic bag.   

[tautech]

Why, because they weren't considered cool ! 
If they'd been raced around Bathurst everyone would want one ! 

My one might not have been cool but it was like Grandma's feather bed. (Didn't get a lot of sleep, but I had a lot of fun)

I don't think I would have liked to drive the thing around Bathurst. It went there, tho.

Stick a big fin on them like a Brute and what's the problem ?
Know too many that have been killed in high power Aussie utes.   

Too light in the arse end.

Exactly. Some would have 100kg of bagged sand in the back to keep them on our windy roads and to make for a fast getaway at the lights.   

I just found out that the VK was assembled in NZ. Never knew that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Commodore_(VK)

Yep for many years until quite recently. Commies were very popular here and you still see lots around and lately late model V8's.....for those that can afford to feed them. 

Old joke
Where can you get a Commodore ?
Off a Commer van ! 

Could be worse, get taken out by a stray plastic bag.   

Nah, sacks not some piss sissy plastic bag and they were mostly wellsides with hard lids so pretty well contained.

[tautech]

Speaking of utes, our youngest came home with an XR6 and if it wasn't for the fact he's the most sensible of our lot and not like his elder bro I would've started making a coffin for him to point out he need get rid of it before it killed him.
The bloody thing went real well as I got to drive it a bit when he went to Texas for 6 months twice for harvest seasons.
It had some 175 KW vs 150 in our VX-11 and knew how to drink gas......or was it just lead foot Dad ? 

[Ed.Kloonk]

Speaking of utes, our youngest came home with an XR6 and if it wasn't for the fact he's the most sensible of our lot and not like his elder bro I would've started making a coffin for him to point out he need get rid of it before it killed him.
The bloody thing went real well as I got to drive it a bit when he went to Texas for 6 months twice for harvest seasons.
It had some 175 KW vs 150 in our VX-11 and knew how to drink gas......or was it just lead foot Dad ? 

In a previous life I had a Falcon two door hardtop. Saw it on the side of the road. Bought it on a whim. Never got a ticket. Had the odd cop pull me up just for a look and a chat. Had some big rubber on the back and still could get loose in the dry. Had to take to 4 barrel off it. Insane amount of juice. Rego was costing too much. Wish I had kept the 9".

[tautech]

Yeah quite understand as we were all young once !
The wife had a hankering for a red Holden Camaro until she found out (after gentle hints  ) just how much it would cost to run then luckily dropped the idea without so much as a whisper. 

[vk6zgo]

They were the last to supply radios, heaters, radial tires, carpet, fuel injection and everything else.
I had a Monaro nearly kill me when its double circuit brakes failed.

The Holden double circuit brakes were identical to everybody else's, so take it up with the brake manufacturers!

[vk6zgo]

Great they are a shocking car.
Have you heard the Australian saying - If its made in Australia for Australians by Australians, then it can't be any bloody good.

No, I haven't heard that. Sounds very pessimistic.

Usually said whilst sipping French champagne.
"Australian made?------My dear, how could you?"

[Ed.Kloonk]

Great they are a shocking car.
Have you heard the Australian saying - If its made in Australia for Australians by Australians, then it can't be any bloody good.

No, I haven't heard that. Sounds very pessimistic.

Usually said whilst sipping French champagne.
"Australian made?------My dear, how could you?"

Ah. Gotcha.

[vk6zgo]

Not pessimistic, its true.
Not long ago bought brand new car designed and made in Australia.
The Australian version had the independent suspension removed.
Steering and suspension were replaced with cheaper versions.
Three friends who have one have had the dash melt in the sun, so I fitted a dash protection mat.
Has a very cheap crappy interior that won't last long.
The window rubbers are already rotting.

Here's a great one for us electronics people -
Then there is the electronic display panel, takes 15 seconds to show any image.
Also when changing to reverse the reversing camera takes 10 seconds to show an image.
On the radio station display shows the radio as being on two stations one corresponds with the steering wheel controls and the other with the radio controls.
My guess is there was a problem integrating it with a local display, so they just left it like that!
It was sold brand new with DAB when all the DAB stations had already gone off air, just left it like that, even though they knew the problem.

If you were sold a DAB radio, you got done!
Australia uses the later, incompatible DAB+ system, & AFAIK there were never any plain DAB transmissions.

The screen cannot be seen even in moderate sunlight.

I am waiting to see what else goes wrong, I won't be disappointed.
The Japanese version of this car is now available and it is far far superior.
And don't forget it was subsidised by the tax payer.
Good riddance to our local manufacturers!

[Kjelt]

They sold Opel (Vauxhall) to PSA last year.
It is a smart move for them IMO, they need to focus on the EV transition and focus on the business parts that make money and territories where they win.

You see it going on everywhere now, mergers even with small carshops here in the Netherlands are merged into larger dealerships.

When EV transition is growing we will not see that many "different" cars, each manufacturer will have three perhaps four platforms and that is it.
On the four platforms there will be the choice but as I read an article today the hardware is no longer going to be the differentiator it is going to be the software and that is where these manufacturers have 0 skills and 0 people. So they need to transit from HW manufacturer to also SW company because it will take too many people to outsource that and be dependent on your income of another company.
Just my two cents.

[I wanted a rude username]

"For $35 billion over two decades, Australia rented jobs from international car companies in exchange for subsidies which they were expert at milking from governments around the world. ... As soon as the subsidies dried up, so did the cars."

[coppice]

This is bigger than just Australia: GM plans to entirely stop manufacturing right-hand drive passenger cars, for all markets. (They might do a few speciality conversions, but those will be effectively aftermarket.)

Shows what a tough situation they are in financially.

The only right hand drive countries where GM ever had any traction were the UK, Australia, and a scattering of sales in the Middle East. They never had any traction in Japan, India, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Singapore and so on. They sold off their entire European operations, so they are out of the UK market. Recently they've been making right hand drive cars just for Australia. Making cars for just one market that isn't so very big is tough. Once upon a time making right and left hand driver versions of a car didn't add much to the engineering, Now you need to tool up an entire front interior. If you don't have the sales volume to effectively spread the NRE for that, you might as well not sell at all.

[Ed.Kloonk]

This is bigger than just Australia: GM plans to entirely stop manufacturing right-hand drive passenger cars, for all markets. (They might do a few speciality conversions, but those will be effectively aftermarket.)

Shows what a tough situation they are in financially.

The only right hand drive countries where GM ever had any traction were the UK, Australia, and a scattering of sales in the Middle East. They never had any traction in Japan, India, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Singapore and so on. They sold off their entire European operations, so they are out of the UK market. Recently they've been making right hand drive cars just for Australia. Making cars for just one market that isn't so very big is tough. Once upon a time making right and left hand driver versions of a car didn't add much to the engineering, Now you need to tool up an entire front interior. If you don't have the sales volume to effectively spread the NRE for that, you might as well not sell at all.

We made a left hand drive car for America here, in oz. Doug DeMuro reviewed it.

[I wanted a rude username]

The Commodore was exported to the UK too (no conversion required but a limited market due to fuel costs and road salting), and some Middle Eastern states. Not sure if the quantities were ever large enough to justify it.

However, development was simplified because Holden was using a common platform, which GM had designed from the ground up to be international. It's that cost which GM presumably expects to save on new designs. The sad part is, it's probably not a large proportion of the platform's cost, and increases the barrier to entry to growing markets like India.

[John B]

I'm a bit of a weeb myself when it comes to cars. There's a ton of japanese models that I'd like to see in australia, but the best you can do on that front is grey imports. Even when there's a common model between the countries, australia gets a crappier cut down model with lower specs.

[Ed.Kloonk]

[tautech]

I'm a bit of a weeb myself when it comes to cars. There's a ton of japanese models that I'd like to see in australia, but the best you can do on that front is grey imports. Even when there's a common model between the countries, australia gets a crappier cut down model with lower specs.

Yes and stuff the way Jap distributors manage the market too !
Over here Toyota are well known for bringing in the base/basic models of a new series and dribbling onto the market over the next few years better models when the home Jap market has already had the top models for years !
Never did NZ Toyota import new Surf's (also known as Forerunner's) and yet there's thousands of them on NZ roads all imported SH from Japan. Oh no, they couldn't possibly bring a cheaper model to the Prado and undermine it's obscene price so they lost 1000's of sales to private importers for a vehicle the public really wanted.

Car and insurance salesmen are the lowest of the low. 

[Ed.Kloonk]

I'm a bit of a weeb myself when it comes to cars. There's a ton of japanese models that I'd like to see in australia, but the best you can do on that front is grey imports. Even when there's a common model between the countries, australia gets a crappier cut down model with lower specs.

Yes and stuff the way Jap distributors manage the market too !
Over here Toyota are well known for bringing in the base/basic models of a new series and dribbling onto the market over the next few years better models when the home Jap market has already had the top models for years !
Never did NZ Toyota import new Surf's (also known as Forerunner's) and yet there's thousands of them on NZ roads all imported SH from Japan. Oh no, they couldn't possibly bring a cheaper model to the Prado and undermine it's obscene price so they lost 1000's of sales to private importers for a vehicle the public really wanted.

Car and insurance salesmen are the lowest of the low. 

You didn't miss much with the foreskinner 4runner. That 2.4L deisel was a joke. Did a trip to Fraser Island in one. Boy did we ever have to get out and push every moment we turned away from the shoreline.

[coppice]

Over here Toyota are well known for bringing in the base/basic models of a new series and dribbling onto the market over the next few years better models when the home Jap market has already had the top models for years !

They offer what sells well in each market. No car maker offers all its options in every market. This can be frustrating if you are one of the outlier customers who wants an option that isn't offered locally, but its no different than buying clothes when you a physical outlier. It sucks, but its understandable.

[Someone]

Over here Toyota are well known for bringing in the base/basic models of a new series and dribbling onto the market over the next few years better models when the home Jap market has already had the top models for years !

They offer what sells well in each market. No car maker offers all its options in every market. This can be frustrating if you are one of the outlier customers who wants an option that isn't offered locally, but its no different than buying clothes when you a physical outlier. It sucks, but its understandable.

To be fair that should be:
"They offer what they think will sell well in each market"
Holden stood firm in their misguided belief that Australians wanted V8 sedans and utes.

Being both small markets and geographically distant Australians and New Zealanders have been offered weird mixes of models from manufacturers. Aside from engines and trim levels body shapes are also artificially constrained, such as wagon (estate) bodies at 3% of used cars compared to 7% in the UK. Demand is so high for wagons that they carry a significant price premium.

And then the import/registration restrictions preventing people bringing over the models they want.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Holden stood firm in their misguided belief that Australians wanted V8 sedans and utes.

Primary producer tax write-off. Was a scam for years and everyone was cheating so the tax office tightened the scrutiny.

[tautech]

Over here Toyota are well known for bringing in the base/basic models of a new series and dribbling onto the market over the next few years better models when the home Jap market has already had the top models for years !

They offer what sells well in each market. No car maker offers all its options in every market. This can be frustrating if you are one of the outlier customers who wants an option that isn't offered locally, but its no different than buying clothes when you a physical outlier. It sucks, but its understandable.

To be fair that should be:
"They offer what they think will sell well in each market"
Holden stood firm in their misguided belief that Australians wanted V8 sedans and utes.

Being both small markets and geographically distant Australians and New Zealanders have been offered weird mixes of models from manufacturers. Aside from engines and trim levels body shapes are also artificially constrained, such as wagon (estate) bodies at 3% of used cars compared to 7% in the UK. Demand is so high for wagons that they carry a significant price premium.

And then the import/registration restrictions preventing people bringing over the models they want.

Engine and transmission options is how they micromanage the market. Bring base models in one year then a bit more powerful motor the next then follow with turbos and transmission options.
Multiple sales to customers are the result from ongoing bites of profit from the buyers purse.
It's only when you see what's offered in other markets is when you become aware of these low life marketplace practices. 

[vk6zgo]

The Commodore was exported to the UK too (no conversion required but a limited market due to fuel costs and road salting), and some Middle Eastern states. Not sure if the quantities were ever large enough to justify it.

I doubt that Holdens would have had a harder time with salt than Brit cars-------at least, back in the day.
I saw Pommy cars on the road there which were so rusted out, they would have been compulsorily put off the road in Oz.!

Holden did well in the Middle East back in the 1970s, &  the "Chev Kommando" or something like that in South Africa was the previous year's Holden.
Of course, anti-Apartheid sanctions killed the ZA market.

They also sent a few Statesman bodies complete with every thing but the engines to Mazda in Japan, who put twin rotor Wankel engines in them.(One of those things car makers do when they are stuck without a model for a particular niche.)
Ford also sold Fairmonts & XA GTs in small numbers in the UK, as well as Chrysler with Valiant VIPs to try to fill the niche vacated by the Humber Hawk & Super Snipe.

Back in the '70s I also saw quite a number of privately imported Holdens in the UK, maybe brought home by Brits who had worked in Oz or NZ, or more likely the Middle East, & they were not "rust buckets".

It was a weird sensation to look out of the train window & see a HD Holden wagon sitting at the lights, all decked out with sun visor, etc.
Such were so familiar at home it looked normal, till I remembered where I was.

GM imported late '50s & early '60s Opels into the USA, which were quite dire, compared to the equivalent Holden.
The tighter the grip of Detroit became, the less chance Australian subsiduaries had of achieving export success.

However, development was simplified because Holden was using a common platform, which GM had designed from the ground up to be international. It's that cost which GM presumably expects to save on new designs. The sad part is, it's probably not a large proportion of the platform's cost, and increases the barrier to entry to growing markets like India.