GM walking away from Australia

[vk6zgo]

Over here Toyota are well known for bringing in the base/basic models of a new series and dribbling onto the market over the next few years better models when the home Jap market has already had the top models for years !

They offer what sells well in each market. No car maker offers all its options in every market. This can be frustrating if you are one of the outlier customers who wants an option that isn't offered locally, but its no different than buying clothes when you a physical outlier. It sucks, but its understandable.

To be fair that should be:
"They offer what they think will sell well in each market"
Holden stood firm in their misguided belief that Australians wanted V8 sedans and utes.

Remember, though, that Holden had become a large importer of cars, so that by the end, the large locally built cars & utes were in the minority, & even of them, most were V6s, not V8s.

Being both small markets and geographically distant Australians and New Zealanders have been offered weird mixes of models from manufacturers. Aside from engines and trim levels body shapes are also artificially constrained, such as wagon (estate) bodies at 3% of used cars compared to 7% in the UK. Demand is so high for wagons that they carry a significant price premium.

Historically, wagons made up a fair percentage of locally made vehicles.

By contrast, factory made wagons in the UK were rare, with most made by small  coachwork companies, & looked it, being pretty much a compromise, using the car rear doors and so on.

The only time an Australian factory did the same thing was with the FB/EK Holden wagons, & they were rightly widely criticised for it.

And then the import/registration restrictions preventing people bringing over the models they want.

[KL27x]

Holden stood firm in their misguided belief that Australians wanted V8 sedans and utes.

... the large locally built cars & utes were in the minority, & even of them, most were V6s, not V8s.

Wonder if these guys watched Mel Gibson and a dog kicking tail across the Australian outback in one of the last-remaining and highly coveted V8's, sometime back in 1979?

[Circlotron]

They also sent a few Statesman bodies complete with every thing but the engines to Mazda in Japan, who put twin rotor Wankel engines in them.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=mazda+roadpacer&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwit787olt_nAhVhJzQIHcxoDRAQ_AUoAXoECAwQAw&biw=1222&bih=954

[Someone]

Over here Toyota are well known for bringing in the base/basic models of a new series and dribbling onto the market over the next few years better models when the home Jap market has already had the top models for years !

They offer what sells well in each market. No car maker offers all its options in every market. This can be frustrating if you are one of the outlier customers who wants an option that isn't offered locally, but its no different than buying clothes when you a physical outlier. It sucks, but its understandable.

To be fair that should be:
"They offer what they think will sell well in each market"
Holden stood firm in their misguided belief that Australians wanted V8 sedans and utes.

Remember, though, that Holden had become a large importer of cars, so that by the end, the large locally built cars & utes were in the minority, & even of them, most were V6s, not V8s.

Automotive has a fairly long lead time for new product introduction/development, so things can't change quickly. But the writing was on the wall in the 90's that the Australian market was not going to stick with larger cars and voluminous+inefficient engines, that they started importing the majority is the big red flag that they failed to follow the market. I've had some contacts inside the industry and saw/heard some mind numbingly stupid ideas/decisions.

But its good to see the media picking up on the history of subsidies/grants that flowed straight though the place to the parent in the US.

[Mr. Scram]

Please include a summary of videos you post, especially in a thread start.  It prevents everyone from having to watch to find out what's it about and a good summary with a personal view attached tends to foster better discussions.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Please include a summary of videos you post, especially in a thread start.  It prevents everyone from having to watch to find out what's it about and a good summary with a personal view attached tends to foster better discussions.

Point taken. I don't think too many people really want my personal view, though I seek everyone else here's view on the particular video. I accept that perhaps I need to seed a debate more. The problem with summarizing is that there are a certain number who would watch a video, read a summary by someone else (or vice versa?) and then set about polluting the thread with semantics of said summary.

But yes, I promise to try to seed debates and walk slowly into murkier waters.

[tautech]

Please include a summary of videos you post, especially in a thread start.  It prevents everyone from having to watch to find out what's it about and a good summary with a personal view attached tends to foster better discussions.

Point taken. I don't think too many people really want my personal view, though I seek everyone else here's view on the particular video. I accept that perhaps I need to seed a debate more. The problem with summarizing is that there are a certain number who would watch a video, read a summary by someone else (or vice versa?) and then set about polluting the thread with semantics of said summary.

But yes, I promise to try to seed debates and walk slowly into murkier waters.

Nah, it's only of concern for those of us downunder. The next few posts after the OP will bring any reader up to date on the content of the thread.
A general interest news topic that might interest the northern hemisphere wouldn't worry us at all and whatsmore most of us downunder couldn't give a damn. 
You keep doing it just how ya like Ed.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Please include a summary of videos you post, especially in a thread start.  It prevents everyone from having to watch to find out what's it about and a good summary with a personal view attached tends to foster better discussions.

Point taken. I don't think too many people really want my personal view, though I seek everyone else here's view on the particular video. I accept that perhaps I need to seed a debate more. The problem with summarizing is that there are a certain number who would watch a video, read a summary by someone else (or vice versa?) and then set about polluting the thread with semantics of said summary.

But yes, I promise to try to seed debates and walk slowly into murkier waters.

Nah, it's only of concern for those of us downunder. The next few posts after the OP will bring any reader up to date on the content of the thread.
A general interest news topic that might interest the northern hemisphere wouldn't worry us at all and whatsmore most of us downunder couldn't give a damn. 
You keep doing it just how ya like Ed.

 

Oh, I see. I tend to forget that those on the other side of the planet aren't getting the same news fed to them as we do. No wonder the punters were doing their lolly.

 

[Mr. Scram]

Nah, it's only of concern for those of us downunder. The next few posts after the OP will bring any reader up to date on the content of the thread.
A general interest news topic that might interest the northern hemisphere wouldn't worry us at all and whatsmore most of us downunder couldn't give a damn. 
You keep doing it just how ya like Ed.

It's not a matter of locale. It's a matter of courtesy and common sense. Dumping a link or video means people have to expend time and effort to find out about the topic. Just a few lines will greatly help and also tend to foster more fruitful discussions. People get of course caught up in their enthusiasm about an interesting video or forget they're much more familiar with the subject than people encountering their thread. That's why the view from the other side helps instead of lambasting someone.

[rdl]

Youtube is blocked on this computer. I used to get a black box instead of the preview, but something has changed and now I get nothing. I asked once somewhere if there was any way the forum software could at least add a normal text link, but I don't recall any response. It's not a real problem though because I know what's going on, but a short description or comment would help to decide if it's something I might want to watch.

[Mr. Scram]

Youtube is blocked on this computer. I used to get a black box instead of the preview, but something has changed and now I get nothing. I asked once somewhere if there was any way the forum software could at least add a normal text link, but I don't recall any response. It's not a real problem though because I know what's going on, but a short description or comment would help to decide if it's something I might want to watch.

Perhaps you can quote a message with a video to recover the link that way.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Nah, it's only of concern for those of us downunder. The next few posts after the OP will bring any reader up to date on the content of the thread.
A general interest news topic that might interest the northern hemisphere wouldn't worry us at all and whatsmore most of us downunder couldn't give a damn. 
You keep doing it just how ya like Ed.

It's not a matter of locale. It's a matter of courtesy and common sense. Dumping a link or video means people have to expend time and effort to find out about the topic. Just a few lines will greatly help and also tend to foster more fruitful discussions. People get of course caught up in their enthusiasm about an interesting video or forget they're much more familiar with the subject than people encountering their thread. That's why the view from the other side helps instead of lambasting someone.

Mr. Self Important.   






 

[Mr. Scram]

Mr. Self Important.   






 

Asking some consideration for the community is very selfish, yes. 

[Ed.Kloonk]

Mr. Self Important.   






 

Asking some consideration for the community is very selfish, yes. 

You do you. 



 

[nctnico]

They sold Opel (Vauxhall) to PSA last year.
It is a smart move for them IMO,
You see it going on everywhere now, mergers even with small carshops here in the Netherlands are merged into larger dealerships.

t as I read an article today the hardware is no longer going to be the differentiator it is going to be the software and that is where these manufacturers have 0 skills and 0 people. So they need to transit from HW manufacturer to also SW company because it will take too many people to outsource that and be dependent on your income of another company.

It looks more like GM is either shaping up to be a good buy or just shedding markets where they lose money. And in the end a car is still a metal box on wheels which takes an incredible amount of logistics to build at very thin margins. Software only goes so far and likely the software will be provided by third parties where the manufacturers may receive a kick-back from services sold.

[VK3DRB]

One big reason Holden's sales plummeted was poor quality in design. Crap cars compared to Japanese or German quality cars in general. Remember the Camira ? Ford was not much better with their EA Falcon door handles and head gaskets failing . Ford and Holden ripped off the owners on replacement parts for years where the root cause was bad design. The consumer had had a gut full. They wanted reliability.

Another reason Holden is dead is they lost sight of changes in the market. GM's marketing appealed to a shrinking demographic. The old days of "SUITS HOLDEN, FALCON, VALIANT" and "FOOTBALL, MEAT PIES, KANGAROOS AND HOLDEN CARS" are long gone but GM failed to recognise it. Holden cars are almost non-existent in this suburb where there is a high proportion of Chinese. Twenty nine percent of Australia's population was born overseas - I think Holden missed the opportunity to tap that demographic. One would lose face driving a Holden around here. Ford's are also rare. Besides, no-one wants to lose resale value or be ripped off on replacement parts.

Holden's demise is GM's own doing.

PS: I have driven the same Honda Civic for the past 12 years. Still going strong and never had a problem. Very happy with its reliability.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Holden's demise is GM's own doing.

Insulting the customer is the highpoint at the beginning of the demise. Sales are down? Hey, look! here is a commodore. Let's call it a Monaro. Let's fk up a perfectly good Holden ute.. Hey, it's a Sandman.

Jesus Christ.

[Ed.Kloonk]

../ or be ripped off on replacement parts.

/..

To be fair, tho, Holden dealers did keep quite alot of stock( or near-stock, same day)  for popular models for many years. Yes expensive but trivial original replacement parts were available. Unlike those pricks at Ford. Your car is ten years old? Fk off!

[vk6zgo]

One big reason Holden's sales plummeted was poor quality in design. Crap cars compared to Japanese or German quality cars in general.

Not all German or Japanese cars, though!
Anybody remember the first model VW Passat?
A friend had one, & it spent more time in the workshop than on the road!
Of course, much more recently was my son's BMW with "run flat" tyres which didn't!!

We had a little Mitsubishi Colt------a lovely little car, except that It would "out of the blue" start running as "rough as guts", then come good till next time.(nobody ever figured that out!)

Another party trick was refusing to start from cold.
This turned out to be Chrysler deciding it didn't need the ballast resistor & 8v coil used universally, & substituting a 12v coil.(a ballast resistor from a dead Datsun, & a new 8v coil fixed that).

Our Mitsubishi didn't burn oil, unlike most others I've seen.

The most reliable cars I've had were the older Holdens, a Renault R12, a 1984 Toyota Corona, & a 1999 Camry,( the two Toyotas were Australian built)
The Camry is still going strong.

After the R12, I thought I'd buy another Renault, so picked up a 1985 R25---- biggest heap of junk ever!

Remember the Camira ? Ford was not much better with their EA Falcon door handles and head gaskets failing

Funny thing, I had both a JB Camira & a EA Falcon,---- kept each of them for 10 years!

The JB Camira was basically a good design, but spoilt by poor quality control.
It was one of the last pre-EFI designs, & had a weird vacuum operated  "Engine Management Module".
Mine had a problem where, when you put your foot down to take off from stationary, nothing happened, & because the dealer didn't seem to have a clue, it wasn't fixed in the early days of my ownership.

We developed an unorthodox method, where you pushed the throttle to the floor, let it up, then all worked normally till next time you had to take off from a dead stop.
I eventually found out two of the vacuum hoses were transposed!

While we still had the problem, we moved to a country town for my job.
We really needed two cars, so I bought myself an old "roughie"------ a Leyland P76 V8 for work.
I had to go back to Perth to get some new tyres for that beast, so drove it down.

Sitting at the lights, I forgot for a second which car I was driving, the lights went green, I did the "floor the throttle" part of the special Camira technique.
The results were spectacular!----scared 6 months growth out of me !

Apart from that, & silly things like bits of interior trim falling off, very heavy steering at low speeds, oh, & the silly aircond compressor mounted right were it picked up all sorts of junk & eventually failed, the JB wasn't a bad car, & served us well for a decade.

The JD Camira was a much better car, with power steering, EFI, better CV joints from the USA (the Opel joints were an abomination), but it was "shutting the gate after the horse had got out"---- the market was gone!

Our EA Falcon was secondhand, & had a few problems like one fuel injector which was incorrectly fitted, & made the car suddenly "hiccup"in mid stream whilst cruising down the road.
The mechanics were quite sure it was "the computer".

It also had a few ignition problems, which I eventually pinned down to a faulty connector on the distributor (they thought that was "the computer", too!)
It still did OK for 10 years!

. Ford and Holden ripped off the owners on replacement parts for years where the root cause was bad design. The consumer had had a gut full. They wanted reliability.

Another reason Holden is dead is they lost sight of changes in the market. GM's marketing appealed to a shrinking demographic. The old days of "SUITS HOLDEN, FALCON, VALIANT" and "FOOTBALL, MEAT PIES, KANGAROOS AND HOLDEN CARS" are long gone but GM failed to recognise it. Holden cars are almost non-existent in this suburb where there is a high proportion of Chinese. Twenty nine percent of Australia's population was born overseas - I think Holden missed the opportunity to tap that demographic. One would lose face driving a Holden around here. Ford's are also rare. Besides, no-one wants to lose resale value or be ripped off on replacement parts.

Holden's demise is GM's own doing.

PS: I have driven the same Honda Civic for the past 12 years. Still going strong and never had a problem. Very happy with its reliability.

I saw a Kia pursuit car today ----Aaarrrrggghhhh!

[Ed.Kloonk]

The most reliable cars I've had were the older Holdens, a Renault R12, a 1984 Toyota Corona, & a 1999 Camry,( the two Toyotas were Australian built)
The Camry is still going strong.

I had a '80 Corona wagon decked out and built for the drive-in. Was hard to kill, that car. But I managed.

[Circlotron]

One big reason Holden's sales plummeted was poor quality in design. Crap cars compared to Japanese or German quality cars in general. Remember the Camira ?

That lousy Camira design was the fault of General Motors, not Holden.
Can you imagine a Cadillac version? It was real.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Cimarron

[Ed.Kloonk]

One big reason Holden's sales plummeted was poor quality in design. Crap cars compared to Japanese or German quality cars in general. Remember the Camira ?

That lousy Camira design was the fault of General Motors, not Holden.
Can you imagine a Cadillac version? it was real.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Cimarron

The first sentence.. "is an entry-level luxury car"

Holy cow.

[vk6zgo]

../ or be ripped off on replacement parts.

/..

To be fair, tho, Holden dealers did keep quite alot of stock( or near-stock, same day)  for popular models for many years. Yes expensive but trivial original replacement parts were available. Unlike those pricks at Ford. Your car is ten years old? Fk off!

I needed to buy a replacement flasher lens for my 1999 Toyota Camry.
Fair enough, it is old, but the things are everywhere (except in the wreckers).

Went to the Toyota Spares place, where a bloke seemed to be playing a computer game on the firm's PC.
When apprised of our requirement, he reluctantly dragged himself away to look it up on the PC.

"350 dollars & 5 working days Ex East" was his pronouncement.
The cost was a bit of a shock, but the "five working days" was the lasr straw!

I said "forget it", & went home to Google, hoping for a used one somewhere.
I found a brand new Chinese copy for $79 pick up the next day!

So much for "keeping my Toyota all Toyota"!

You would think that a company that advertises itself as a parts supplier would have a bit of stock.

Things have got so silly that, in a capital city, you are treated like a "provincial".
Almost everybody you have to deal with is either in Melbourne or Sydney, in a different time zone.

[nctnico]

You should breed more people! There just isn't enough people (and thus cars) to keep stock of every part. When I visited New Zealand the people where complaining about the same. Because the market is so small it is hard to buy equipment and parts at sane prices with short delivery times.

[Ed.Kloonk]

../ or be ripped off on replacement parts.

/..

To be fair, tho, Holden dealers did keep quite alot of stock( or near-stock, same day)  for popular models for many years. Yes expensive but trivial original replacement parts were available. Unlike those pricks at Ford. Your car is ten years old? Fk off!

I needed to buy a replacement flasher lens for my 1999 Toyota Camry.
Fair enough, it is old, but the things are everywhere (except in the wreckers).

Went to thes Toyota Spares place, where a bloke seemed to be playing a computer game on the firm's PC.
When apprised of our requirement, he reluctantly dragged himself away to look it up on the PC.

"350 dollars & 5 working days Ex East" was his pronouncement.
The cost was a bit of a shock, but the "five working days" was the lasr straw!

I said "forget it", & went home to Google, hoping for a used one somewhere.
I found a brand new Chinese copy for $79 pick up the next day!

So much for "keeping my Toyota all Toyota"!

You would think that a company that advertises itself as a parts supplier would have a bit of stock.

Things have got so silly that, in a capital city, you are treated like a "provincial".
Almost everybody you have to deal with is either in Melbourne or Sydney, in a different time zone.

Yeah, I hear ya. I'm in the sticks, but I would step back if I couldn't get a genuine part same day/next day.