Go to work or a Ph.D (both in Analog IC design), which way to go?

[toli]

Hi Guys,

I'm now approaching the final stretch of my M.Sc in EE (my focus was on analog front-ends for different sensors, and quite similar sense amps for some "not-so-digital" memories). Over the last 2-3 years I've designed my share of circuits, and have some tape-outs under my belt. Most circuits were designed as part of a collaboration with industry, so the experience I got is very much relevant for life after school.

Anyway, I'm now once more, facing a crossroad. On one hand I have the opportunity to go work part time, and stay in school working towards a Ph.D (again in the field of Analog IC design, but on some other topics than I did so far); and on the other, go work full time and forget about a Ph.D. My final goal is to gain as much knowledge as possible during the course of the next few years. While there's the issue of salary (which is obviously much higher if I'll go work full time), this comes in second to the knowledge/experience I will gain.

The way I see it, going to work full time will definitely be more hands on experience when compared to school (although the things our group does are quite down to earth and very much in collaboration with indusrtry). However, as a Ph.D student there's more time to dive deeper into topics and better the understanding compared to industry, where from my understanding, meeting the dead-line for the project is the only point of interest. Plus, having a Ph.D might open some doors to some more interesting job opportunities down the road. But there's also the chance that a Ph.D will be considered over-qualified and have a hard time finding work.
This is why I leaned towards working part time and study for my Ph.D in the rest, as the middle ground. However, an interesting work opportunity has come along, and now I'm once again torn between the two.

This is where you guys come in. I was hoping some of the members (especially these in the field of analog IC design) around the forum will have some input or advice.

[jpb]

I think it depends on whether you want to do research or more design and development.

After finishing my first degree I just wanted to get into industry and earn a salary, though I still went into research in GaAs integrated circuits (analogue - microwave amps, mixers, phase shifters, switches etc). As it was research a lot of other people in the field had PhDs.

I ended up doing a PhD 24 years later, though it is in computer science rather than electronics. I chose to do a PhD because after a couple of decades of doing both research and development and technical support and running a small company I decided research is what I really like doing (that and a bit of teaching).

You won't gain much relevant knowledge from doing a PhD but you will demonstrate that you can do research - so only do it if you want to continue in research either in industry or a university.

Only you can decide what is important to you. Research is fun but probably not that well paid. Gaining expertise as a designer is also fun but after a few years you'll probably find that you're doing less new stuff and that you're getting a bit specialised and that career advancement is a case of moving into management and away from technology. Life will be a bit less fun but a lot better paid.

[toli]

Thank you for the reply. You make some relevant points that I've considered, and I'm glad to read these coming from someone who speaks from experience.

To answer the points you've raised, I indeed see myself doing some research. I think that might actually be a good way to keep things interesting, and not simply doing the same think over and over again. Why do I say "some"? well, because I would like to do something that's relevant and practical (as most things in EE are), so I'll probably end up doing this in industry and not at the university. I would also say I'm more interested in staying a technical guy, and not a manager - even if that means being payed less. But who knows, I still have a few more years to work before I'm at the crossroad

[w2aew]

Thank you for the reply. You make some relevant points that I've considered, and I'm glad to read these coming from someone who speaks from experience.

To answer the points you've raised, I indeed see myself doing some research. I think that might actually be a good way to keep things interesting, and not simply doing the same think over and over again. Why do I say "some"? well, because I would like to do something that's relevant and practical (as most things in EE are), so I'll probably end up doing this in industry and not at the university. I would also say I'm more interested in staying a technical guy, and not a manager - even if that means being payed less. But who knows, I still have a few more years to work before I'm at the crossroad

I tend to agree with jpb.  Actual experience will be much more valuable in the near term for your growth and depth of knowledge.  You'll learn a LOT of things that simply are not taught or studied in school.  There is a LOT more to being a good, well rounded engineer than what you can learn in school - and this knowledge/experience is what is valued by many employers.  The PhD will take you down a deep, narrow path - focusing in on a fairly narrow field of study.  If you have great interest in that, then this may be a reason to go that route.  But, I think you'd be better off gaining some real experience.  You may find that you'll develop an interest or passion for a different path later on, and then can pick up your studies in that direction then.

Personally - I went right to work after getting my BSEE almost 30 years ago.  I've done analog and high speed mixed-signal design, test development, circuit validation engineering, test engineering, analog integrated circuit design, application engineering, and more.  For me, being more of a generalist has been very rewarding.  But, in the end, it's a choice that you'll have to make to give you the most satisfaction out of your career (which is really more important than the salary, IMHO).

[toli]

Thank you for the reply. Please keep in mind that even if I stay in school, I'm going to work part time (in the same place where I'm offered a full time job working on a similar/same project), so I will still be gaining experience in work if I take this route. Will this affect what you had to say in any way?

[jpb]

It sounds like getting a PhD would help you do what you like doing.

Another couple of things to consider. One is that doing a PhD part time will be a long term commitment. Doing one full time takes at least 3 years more normally 4, in the States they take more like 7 years (they do more general research as part of a team in addition to their own work I think). Doing a part-time PhD is likely to take 10 years.

Also, once you're working it can be very hard to work on PhD work as well. I know several people who have taken jobs before writing up a PhD with the idea of writing it up in their spare time and then never completing the PhD. This shouldn't be a problem if you have say a couple of days off work for PhD stuff a week (and I don't mean the weekend!)

On the positive side, by working part time you should be gaining very useful practical experience that will make you very employable. My experience was that as a young engineer getting offered jobs was very easy (they weren't particularly well paid but engineers were in demand). But then as I got older it became much more difficult - as you advance you get more specialised and if your experience doesn't quite fit then employers perceive you as expensive - a new graduate is flexible and relatively cheap.

[con-f-use]

Being close to completing my PhD, I can say: For god's sake go to work, man!

Doing it in physics though not in EE.

[Bored@Work]

You should take responses you get here regarding work experience with a grain of salt. There is a huge crowd here who are frustrated because they didn't manage to even get a degree and have a rather negative attitude towards education. They will tell you that enthusiasm and experience is all that matters and that education is a pointless exercise.

I think the combination of working part time and doing a PhD is a great opportunity if you want to do it and if you are the right stuff to pull it off.

[free_electron]

Askyourself this : how many semiconductor companies are there in your part of the world and how many phd's do they need ...

Things change if you want to explore the entire world.

[jpb]

i will look at Mr bean as an example. he is a funny guy, and he has alot of "paper", but he did something that made the whole world very happy. but then again, knowing my region, money makes some kind of happy too. but i like mr bean's type of satisfaction in life.

Actually Mr Bean (aka Rowan Atkinson) has two degrees in Electrical Engineering (the first from Newcastle University and then a post grad MSc from Oxford)!

[toli]

Askyourself this : how many semiconductor companies are there in your part of the world and how many phd's do they need ...

Things change if you want to explore the entire world.

There are actually quite a few semiconductor companies over here. When you take into account the size of the population, I think its amazing how many companies in the field you can find here. I had a chance to meet some analog designers from these companies who are Ph.D's. Most of them said going for their Ph.D was the best decision ever. I am taking their opinion into account, but would still like to hear some other opinions so hopefully I'll form a more objective view of the topic and could make the best decision (or at least what I'll think is the best decision).

Thank you all for your input, it highly appreciated, the more opinions I hear, the better.

[IanB]

I faced exactly the same crossroads when I graduated. I had a choice to stay on and do a PhD or leave and take up a job in industry. In my case, since I had a job offer in hand in exactly the same field that the PhD would have been in, I took up that first job and never looked back.

Although I have some regrets about missing the PhD, the only time it would really have been useful was when moving to the USA. Holding a PhD can significantly speed up the green card process.

[Kohanbash]

I would also say I'm more interested in staying a technical guy, and not a manager - even if that means being payed less.

A PhD lets you choose your own research topics (assuming you can find funding) and pursue things that interest you. However most PhD's (in academia) slowly become more like managers then technical. Typically a professor will spend a lot of time looking for funding, managing the projects they have, advising students, and teaching a little. Often a Professor has a wealth of high level technical knowledge from being around and having experienced multiple projects, but will not be getting their hands dirty with the technical stuff regularly.

[edavid]

Don't forget that the semiconductor industry is cyclical.  Things are going well enough now that you can get a job, so you might consider doing that and making some money.  Then you can go back to school during the next recession.

[w2aew]

Askyourself this : how many semiconductor companies are there in your part of the world and how many phd's do they need ...

Things change if you want to explore the entire world.

There are actually quite a few semiconductor companies over here. When you take into account the size of the population, I think its amazing how many companies in the field you can find here. I had a chance to meet some analog designers from these companies who are Ph.D's. Most of them said going for their Ph.D was the best decision ever. I am taking their opinion into account, but would still like to hear some other opinions so hopefully I'll form a more objective view of the topic and could make the best decision (or at least what I'll think is the best decision).

Thank you all for your input, it highly appreciated, the more opinions I hear, the better.

Your "local" information is very valuable, and should be weighed appropriately.  In your country, a PhD may be more desired/required/etc. than in other countries for the same type of job.