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General => General Chat => Topic started by: ataradov on August 06, 2015, 04:46:40 am

Title: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: ataradov on August 06, 2015, 04:46:40 am
I've just stumbled upon a list of police codes (10-4, you know). And there are two codes next to each other:
Quote
11-25    Road/traffic hazard
11-25x    Female motorist needs assistance
Interesting numbering and there is no equivalent for male motorist :)

I wonder who invented them, and though it was a good idea to put it like that.
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: mswhin63 on August 06, 2015, 05:23:09 am
Funny, it also suggests that Road/Traffic Hazards are caused by Female having the primary number the same.

Old days it would have been Chivalry, now chivalry could land you in hot water.
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: pickle9000 on August 06, 2015, 05:53:45 am
- Does that mean without the x it's a guy and leave them to rot?
- With the x it's a girl and let's go check her out?

 
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: continuo on August 06, 2015, 07:05:29 am
I wonder who invented them, and though it was a good idea to put it like that.

I don't know. But it probably was around the same time Volkswagen printed such adverts  :box:


(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8306/7918366840_2f029a0c63_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: RickBrant on August 06, 2015, 07:40:32 am
Well this is all very funny, or sad, but the real reason females get there own code is that -

- it is useful to give a general description of whom to look for at a scene.
- yes, if police help is needed at a scene, it may be more urgent if it's a woman who needs help.
- you don't want to say "female" on the air, as idiots with scanners might hear and get there before the police do.

So the "x" codes, which may or may not have anything to do with the "x" chromosome, were born.

Where a numeric code is followed by a letter the letter is said over the air using the phonetic alphabet, so it would be "eleven-twenty-five x-ray". CHP even says "X-ray" instead of saying "female" or "woman" in normal speech with no number code before it, e.g. "The X-ray was driving."

http://www.policemag.com/cop-slang/x-ray.aspx (http://www.policemag.com/cop-slang/x-ray.aspx)
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: andersm on August 06, 2015, 08:11:18 am
I don't know. But it probably was around the same time Volkswagen printed such adverts
Women, For Pity's Sake Don't Drive! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXzqAC_7Vxg)
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: firewalker on August 06, 2015, 08:16:30 am
Maybe the need to know in order to dispatch a female officer.

Alexander.
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: Delta on August 06, 2015, 11:37:43 am
I fail to see any sexism there...
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: McBryce on August 06, 2015, 11:49:28 am
Reminds me of the completely coincidental spelling of certain German words:

Ire = Someone from Ireland
Irre = Lunatic

Trauring = Wedding Ring
Traurig = Sad

They tell me it's pure coincidence  ;D

McBryce.
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: zapta on August 06, 2015, 11:59:16 am
I fail to see any sexism there...

These days  "women and children first" is sexist and agist.
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: Macbeth on August 06, 2015, 12:13:03 pm
By female they mean someone who gender identifies as female, I hope?  ;)

I also wonder how the UK police, being the ultimate SJW's get away with the IC1, IC2, etc racial profiles?

Oh dear, I just looked it up - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC_codes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC_codes) - police are required to use the more extensive "16+1" Self Defined Ethnicity codes, "even if the category chosen is clearly at odds with the officer’s visual assessment"   :palm: :-DD
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: Mechanical Menace on August 06, 2015, 02:30:59 pm
Oh dear, I just looked it up - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC_codes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC_codes) - police are required to use the more extensive "16+1" Self Defined Ethnicity codes, "even if the category chosen is clearly at odds with the officer’s visual assessment"   :palm: :-DD

O1 should be in the A catagory*, is that a sign of a little bit of racism still falling into the new codes?

For what it's worth I don't have an option on there apart from NS as there's no M99 - a right Eurasian mongrel option. And seeing as some things make you illegally answer one or the other for ethnicity I tend to go for White British as it's just easier.

*I can't be the only person who finds only counting those from the Indian subcontinent as Asian as either racist by those who are ethnically from said subcontinent or those Asians who aren't...
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: bookaboo on August 06, 2015, 02:58:36 pm
Reminds me of the completely coincidental spelling of certain German words:

Ire = Someone from Ireland
Irre = Lunatic

Trauring = Wedding Ring
Traurig = Sad

They tell me it's pure coincidence  ;D

McBryce.

I wish I could argue with these comparisons.
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: Rick Law on August 06, 2015, 03:13:54 pm
It's simply an old code, from a time when it wasn't thought safe for a lone woman to be stuck by the side of the road in a broken down car. Nowadays the police evaluate the situation based on the individual.


Until the policeman gets on scene, they cannot evaluate the situation anyhow.  So the radio call pretty much has to say somehow it is more urgent.

It is still less safe for a lone woman to be stuck on the road side.  Outside of prison, male-rape-female (I would imagine) still far out numbers other forms of rape.  For an opportunistic crime, man stuck by the road side would likely suffer property crime, a woman may suffer more.

[Edit: corrected a typo]
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: tom66 on August 06, 2015, 04:23:32 pm
I fail to see any sexism there...

These days  "women and children first" is sexist and agist.
It's the reason so many men perished on the Titanic.
But I don't have so much of a problem with priority for those who are less able like children and the elderly.
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: ataradov on August 06, 2015, 04:25:37 pm
Police can use normal language if they need to describe some very specific situation. Being stuck on the road next to prison is an example of a very specific situation.

The problem here is that there is no code for "Male motorist needs assistance" or even "Motorist needs assistance".
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: TimFox on August 06, 2015, 04:58:33 pm
Before the state of Iowa issued driver's licenses with photos, they typed "1" for black and "3" for white on a black rectangle (so no one would notice) to give a first-order identification of the driver.
Some white people objected, since there more whites than blacks in Iowa, and demanded "1" for white.
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: AF6LJ on August 06, 2015, 06:13:39 pm
I've just stumbled upon a list of police codes (10-4, you know). And there are two codes next to each other:
Quote
11-25    Road/traffic hazard
11-25x    Female motorist needs assistance
Interesting numbering and there is no equivalent for male motorist :)

I wonder who invented them, and though it was a good idea to put it like that.
When you listen to big city cops talk back and fourth on their radios you find out they have a whole language that is not only sexist but even worse.
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: ataradov on August 06, 2015, 06:22:13 pm
When you listen to big city cops talk back and fourth on their radios you find out they have a whole language that is not only sexist but even worse.
I've been listening downtown San Jose police work (that's why I was looking up codes in a first place) for a about a week. So far they have been nothing but professional.

Also surprising amount of crap happens in a very small  area.
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: mtdoc on August 06, 2015, 06:28:55 pm
I've known many law enforcement officers over the years. In private, sexism and racism among them has been way too common.  Whether they bring that to their job is another matter. I suspect (hope) most of them are professional enough not to.  However, it's a tough job and with so many of them, there are going to be enough bad apples in the bunch that in stressful situations ones true nature is bound to sometimes come out...
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: German_EE on August 06, 2015, 06:50:12 pm
The code may have a use. Years ago my mother had a flat tire and pulled over to the side of the autobahn. She knew how to change the tire but at 1,5m tall and under 45Kg she was unable to lift the wheel out of the trunk so she called the police using the emergency phone system.
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: Rick Law on August 06, 2015, 10:15:42 pm
Not related to sexism per-se but related to police behavior:

Here is a video discussion of a cell-phone photo - a few days ago, a passer-by photographed a policeman  helping a kid putting his tie on!

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4395066092001/new-jersey-cop-teaches-teen-how-to-tie-a-tie/?intcmp=obinsite#sp=show-clips (http://video.foxnews.com/v/4395066092001/new-jersey-cop-teaches-teen-how-to-tie-a-tie/?intcmp=obinsite#sp=show-clips)

I don't have police friends anymore (lost touch with them).  With my encounters with the police, I think they have a stronger "sense of fairness" than the general population.  They may talk tough, but most of them are good guys doing a hard job.
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: Mechanical Menace on August 07, 2015, 07:13:13 am
Not related to sexism per-se but related to police behavior:

Here is a video discussion of a cell-phone photo - a few days ago, a passer-by photographed a policeman  helping a kid putting his tie on!

Obvious setup for publicity is obvious. Where're the shots of the copper trying to bully the person with the camera into stopping filming?


Quote
With my encounters with the police, I think they have a stronger "sense of fairness" than the general population.

My observations the police in almost every country I've been to make me believe they're the biggest gang on the streets. Good cops are only good until a bad cop turns up and they've got to fall in line.

Quote
They may talk tough, but most of them are good guys doing a hard job.

Tough titty booby pie. They picked that job, if they can't do it while understanding the concept of policing by consent, without illegally throwing their weight around because they are insecure about the size of their... batons, or happilly put up with people telling them to go f*&k themselves when they have every right to they should be doing something else.
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: McBryce on August 07, 2015, 10:52:23 am
Reminds me of the completely coincidental spelling of certain German words:

Ire = Someone from Ireland
Irre = Lunatic

Trauring = Wedding Ring
Traurig = Sad

They tell me it's pure coincidence  ;D

McBryce.

I wish I could argue with these comparisons.

As I'm Irish (and married) living in Germany, I've tried... and failed. Funnily enough, the second one is rarely noticed by Germans until you point it out! :D

McBryce.
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: Rick Law on August 07, 2015, 04:47:46 pm
Not related to sexism per-se but related to police behavior:

Here is a video discussion of a cell-phone photo - a few days ago, a passer-by photographed a policeman  helping a kid putting his tie on!

Obvious setup for publicity is obvious. Where're the shots of the copper trying to bully the person with the camera into stopping filming?


Quote
With my encounters with the police, I think they have a stronger "sense of fairness" than the general population.

My observations the police in almost every country I've been to make me believe they're the biggest gang on the streets. Good cops are only good until a bad cop turns up and they've got to fall in line.

Quote
They may talk tough, but most of them are good guys doing a hard job.

Tough titty booby pie. They picked that job, if they can't do it while understanding the concept of policing by consent, without illegally throwing their weight around because they are insecure about the size of their... batons, or happilly put up with people telling them to go f*&k themselves when they have every right to they should be doing something else.

Hmmm....  Sounded like you just got another speeding ticket or something.  You don't seem to like them...  Any particular reason?
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: Mechanical Menace on August 07, 2015, 04:57:07 pm
Hmmm....  Sounded like you just got another speeding ticket or something.  You don't seem to like them...  Any particular reason?

Only what I've seen them do to others when they're bored and fancy throwing their weight around for no reason* or want to get one of their off duty mates out of trouble. I've never had any hassle from them personally except for getting a driving ban for speeding on my push bike when I was 16**. But just because I've never personally been targeted for unfair treatment doesn't mean I can turn a blind eye to how they can and have treated others in my presence. And if a good cop covers for them or ignores what they do they aren't a good cop any more as far as I'm concerned.


*They've never done that to me, I'd like to think it has nothing to do with my size. Like to.

**And TBH that was sort of fair, I was doing almost 70 in a 30 limit.
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: Zero999 on August 07, 2015, 04:59:14 pm
I've never had any hassle from them personally except for getting a driving ban for speeding on my push bike when I was 16**.

**And TBH that was sort of fair, I was doing almost 70 in a 30 limit.
How did you manage to do 70mph on a push bike?
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: CatalinaWOW on August 07, 2015, 05:03:38 pm
I would think "there is no code for male motorist needs assistance" might be better read "this list has no such code".  I have seen a number of these lists of 10 codes.  They are of varying length and content.  Unless there is an ISO type organization with a formal standard for the codes the sexism may well be in the list generator, not necessarily the code.

While todays society has little room or need for sexism, under other circumstances it makes lots of sense.  Think of two populations.  One has 99% of its females killed, the other 99% of its males.  Which will recover from the disaster more quickly?  There are other less extreme examples.
Title: Re: Good old sexism in police codes
Post by: Mechanical Menace on August 07, 2015, 05:11:09 pm
How did you manage to do 70mph on a push bike?

Downhill fixed tail mountain bike with high ratio gearing on the middle and largest chainring on the chainset*. Could go faster on a decent surfaced steep road instead of the flat lol.

That time my mate who was following me rear bearings welded themselves to the spindle, after that we always paid extra attention to the lubricants used. He was very very lucky it wasn't the front wheel that seized up.



*Smallest chainring was standard, it was my bike for getting around and not just for going nuts on.