Author Topic: Goodbye Windows XP  (Read 36411 times)

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Offline Rigby

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2014, 10:42:29 pm »
Windows is antique dinosaur-age software that really needs to just die already.

That is probably because your Windows experience stopped growing at Windows XP.  And saying LibreOffice is better than MS Office is absolutely hilarious to me.  As someone who is forced to use both for the same damn things, I can tell you without hesitation that LibreOffice is a steaming puddle of loose stool, and the wind is blowing the stink right into my kitchen window.

Windows is used in a lot of places that you don't know of, I'll bet, though in your circumstances I have no doubt that you'd like to see it leave your life.  I can respect that.  I'd like to see Linux desktop out of my life, and so it is.

I ran Linux full time for years, way back when it was a pain in the ass to do so.  You had to really, really WANT Linux if you were going to run it as a desktop.  I'm talking 1997-1998, here.  I still run it as a desktop from time to time, and I always give it several weeks of use before I decide commit to my opinions.  I have yet to be satisfied at all with any Linux desktop that I didn't literally pour entire weekends of time into to get it right.  I always spent more time on the OS than I did actually getting things done, if I wanted the OS to be anything other than a hindrance.

Linux on servers is a very different beast, but even so, I still prefer FreeBSD over Linux.

On the very rare occasion that I need to make sure a document prints as I intend, I will print it to PDF and send the PDF around.
 

Offline Vgkid

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2014, 11:07:03 pm »
Im just sitting here running Windows Vista, never had that much difficulties with it.
Funnily enough my parents computer ran better on Win-Me than XP.
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Offline tom66

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2014, 11:59:32 pm »
Windows 7 has only cosmetic changes over Windows XP [...]

It's a completely different kernel. It's more like Vista than XP. And it's actually alright. No major complaints here.
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2014, 12:39:34 am »
I've just put Win 8.1 on a newish machine, though my trusty XP machine is still the main one for now. I've yet to have any real issues with 8.1, starting to find my way round it without a struggle.

My wife's and my laptops are both about 6 or 7 years old, Core 2 Duo with 2GB ram (mine recently upgraded to 3) and they have the "Designed for Windows XP" stickers on them still and are now happily running Windows 8.1 Update 1. (The update that was visible for a few days)  When you install Classic Shell in Windows 8.1, it's pretty good. To me it feels like it runs even smoother than 7 did on these computers.
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Offline edavid

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2014, 01:26:53 am »
OK, examples?

http://bit.ly/1pO6uhp

Just as I thought, you don't know of any significant improvements either.
 

Offline edavid

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2014, 01:30:42 am »
Windows 7 has only cosmetic changes over Windows XP [...]

It's a completely different kernel. It's more like Vista than XP. And it's actually alright. No major complaints here.

Obviously it's not completely different.  Vista had only the most trivial differences from XP.

 

Offline Rigby

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2014, 02:06:18 am »
You have no idea what you're talking about.
 

Offline GeoffS

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2014, 02:26:30 am »
My only instance of XP runs under VMware to support a USB connected weather station.
It is way behind on updates but not having network connectivity, that doesn't really matter.
Everything else run Linux
 

Offline GEuser

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2014, 03:10:29 am »
I really liked XP , had it for years from 98 skipped all the rest in-between , now I really like 7 .
Soon
 

Offline TMM

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2014, 06:48:01 am »
The only advantage of XP is that the install is physically very small. I forget the exact size but i believe it is less than 2GB, possibly even less than 1GB. Something like Windows 7 on the otherhand is pushing 15GB+ on a fresh install and easily bloats out over 20GB after some use.

I really liked XP , had it for years from 98 skipped all the rest in-between , now I really like 7 .
same here.

Windows 7 has only cosmetic changes over Windows XP [...]

It's a completely different kernel. It's more like Vista than XP. And it's actually alright. No major complaints here.

Obviously it's not completely different.  Vista had only the most trivial differences from XP.
That's like saying that a 2014 car has trivial differences to a car from the 1980s because it still has 4 wheels and a steering wheel. Vista was a massive upgrade from Windows XP in terms of how the drivers/audio/peripherals etc work. However they goofed up the user interface big time and it ran dog slow. Windows 7 and 8 have 'trivial' differences from Vista.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 06:56:23 am by TMM »
 

Offline Zbig

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2014, 08:50:54 am »
Obviously it's not completely different.  Vista had only the most trivial differences from XP.

 :o That's the most uninformed, ignorant and plain wrong arbitrary statement I've read in months. Like "had-to-check-if-not-still-1st-of-April" kind of dumb  :palm:
« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 08:52:59 am by Zbig »
 

Offline GEuser

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2014, 09:04:19 am »
My only instance of XP runs under VMware to support a USB connected weather station.
It is way behind on updates but not having network connectivity, that doesn't really matter.
Everything else run Linux

You used to be able to in the old days send away for a CD , free it was too! it had the latest updates on it and I gather for people that had slow downloads back in the day , I used it one or 2 times when "fast" downloading was at 2.5kb a second and that was all I had for ages out rural .
Soon
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2014, 11:37:27 am »
and that's the issue.

No more security updates.

Their will be a flood hacks and exploits when they are found now.

Security software and firewalls most likely not enough.
:-DD You are completely falling for the FUD Microsoft is spreading. If it where true my computer would be invested with malware. The reality is that I quit installing updates years ago because they break more than they fix. A computer is only at risk if it is connected to internet directly. Nowadays every sane internet provider gives you a router which acts as a firewall.
The biggest risk for a computer is the user who can click a link which install malware. For that you have a virus/malware scanner.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online digsys

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Windows XP goes on
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2014, 12:02:17 pm »
I look after app 100 PCs, most on networks, right the way from the DOS days. They have a good AV (my pref is NODSS) and good firewalls.
All are XP3, and I've only done manual updates every 6-12 months. I've RARELY EVER had a serious problem, and always a user doing
something I tell them NOT to do ie wares etc. I have no need / intention of "upgrading" ... they can try to pry it from my dead limp body.
I also have several machines on Win311, Win98, most on a Network. That's my opinion. YMMV
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Online T3sl4co1l

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2014, 03:03:30 pm »
Historical reference for those that don't remember (myself included!):

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

- Presumably, this is aggregated either from w3's viewing stats, or from stats sent to them in some manner.
- Data goes back to 2003 and is split up by OS, not just vendor.
- Just guessing, ME is probably rolled into 98[SE] stats.

Markers:
- Win95 ended 2001
- Win98 ended 2006
- Win2k ended 2010
- Vista ended 2012
- XP ended 2014

- Win2k released 2000
- XP released 2001
- Vista released 2006
- Win7 released 2009

When Win98 ended, it was only 1-2% of online computers.  So who cares.  Period articles give a figure of 70 million machines still using it; probably, few of these were online, which is fine as far as security goes.
When Win2k ended, it was < 1%.
Vista ended with a few still (3-4%), but wasn't very popular anyway.

What's totally unprecedented is, XP is still at 10% or so, and that's just online machines (the average news story is giving it as 30%, which I guess is by machine, not just web views).  And that after 13 years.

Vista, Win7 and Win8 have made a strong impact, with Win7 being dominant online and probably Win8 coming up in the next year or few.

What's ironic is, M$ finally did exactly what everyone wanted them to do: make a robust OS that endures.  And now they're probably losing money on it (I would assume either losses, or dwindling support profits, are the motivation for cutting support).  You can be absolutely sure they won't make that mistake again -- which is all the more reason to keep it with some confidence!

Interesting to think what could happen -- probably won't, but, suppose this: suppose Win7+ were just absolute shit and the XP market share was still 50% and going strong.  And M$ drops support.  Would the [good] hackers create patches for them?  Is it even possible?!  (Of course it's possible, some of the attacks even look like patches; there was a Windows Update exploit, remember!)

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Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
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Offline Rigby

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Re: Windows XP goes on
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2014, 03:15:23 pm »
I look after app 100 PCs, most on networks, right the way from the DOS days. They have a good AV (my pref is NODSS) and good firewalls.
All are XP3, and I've only done manual updates every 6-12 months. I've RARELY EVER had a serious problem, and always a user doing
something I tell them NOT to do ie wares etc. I have no need / intention of "upgrading" ... they can try to pry it from my dead limp body.
I also have several machines on Win311, Win98, most on a Network. That's my opinion. YMMV

You're really kind of doing the admin thing the hard way, then.  Some of the most significant changes in the later windows versions are the remote administration capabilities that have been added/improved.  PowerShell alone is enough of a reason to take a very strong look at Windows, but if you don't look at the later versions, then you simply won't see how much things have improved, and you won't have any understanding as to why people upgrade.
 

Offline GEuser

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2014, 03:54:38 pm »
Historical reference for those that don't remember (myself included!):

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

- Presumably, this is aggregated either from w3's viewing stats, or from stats sent to them in some manner.
- Data goes back to 2003 and is split up by OS, not just vendor.
- Just guessing, ME is probably rolled into 98[SE] stats.

Markers:
- Win95 ended 2001
- Win98 ended 2006
- Win2k ended 2010
- Vista ended 2012
- XP ended 2014

- Win2k released 2000
- XP released 2001
- Vista released 2006
- Win7 released 2009

When Win98 ended, it was only 1-2% of online computers.  So who cares.  Period articles give a figure of 70 million machines still using it; probably, few of these were online, which is fine as far as security goes.
When Win2k ended, it was < 1%.
Vista ended with a few still (3-4%), but wasn't very popular anyway.

What's totally unprecedented is, XP is still at 10% or so, and that's just online machines (the average news story is giving it as 30%, which I guess is by machine, not just web views).  And that after 13 years.

Vista, Win7 and Win8 have made a strong impact, with Win7 being dominant online and probably Win8 coming up in the next year or few.

What's ironic is, M$ finally did exactly what everyone wanted them to do: make a robust OS that endures.  And now they're probably losing money on it (I would assume either losses, or dwindling support profits, are the motivation for cutting support).  You can be absolutely sure they won't make that mistake again -- which is all the more reason to keep it with some confidence!

Interesting to think what could happen -- probably won't, but, suppose this: suppose Win7+ were just absolute shit and the XP market share was still 50% and going strong.  And M$ drops support.  Would the [good] hackers create patches for them?  Is it even possible?!  (Of course it's possible, some of the attacks even look like patches; there was a Windows Update exploit, remember!)

Tim

I found a W95 cd quite some time ago (2 years?) , installed it on a AMD ?? 500mhz I had kicking about at the time that just never made it to the tip yet and after much fiddling about to get it running I was amazed on how clunky it seemed but also amazed on how it was still graphical enough to still look ok , one could certainly still see win98se in it in places , it even had a couple of playable shootemup games in it I recall .

Interesting info in your post !
Soon
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2014, 05:38:37 pm »
IMHO Win2k is still the best Windows MS produced. Not as clunky as NT4 and not as quirky as WinXP. The things that killed Win2k where USB and multimedia support.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Fagear

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2014, 05:42:26 pm »
As for the topic - I don't care and I don't understand all this "panic, support ends, heeelp".
Really? :palm:
My copies are genuine but I NEVER asked for support from MS.
As for security updates - why the hell I should care? Major improvements were made long time ago, most of the last "updates" were like "oh, well, lets fix some old security bug and add a new small one" - not a big deal. I will not cry if those fantom updates will go away. All the latest times I saw an another update - it was like "hell, again some stupid nothing-doing-bugfix".

I still run Atom-netbook with WinXP SP3 (writing right now from it), one testing PC for old HW with WinXP SP3. Some other half-disassembled computers with XP on them. And I also have main PC with Win7 Pro x64, also genuine.

All my PCs are are equiped with antiviruses and standard Windows firewall. I didn't saw any virus, malware or stange behaviour for many years (not even an alert about it). As an addition almost all my PCs are in network behind a router (with Linux type OS) with NAT enabled and all ports closed from outside. Some of PCs are even not connected to my local network.
And on top of that I have to use some software, that runs only under WinXP and there are no replacements for Win7. Some hardware specific and something else.

So I don't care about and of support, actually I'm happy with no more annoying useless updates. Win98 support ended long time ago and I still sometimes use it.
I just disabled update KB2934207 that helps MS to annoy me with popup about "oh, you are using old obsolete OS, go and give us some money and buy new one!".
All I really want - some type of "service pack 4". If I reinstall WinXP on some of my PCs I want to update it to latest state with one cumulative update, downloaded to my software library.
 

Online digsys

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Re: Windows XP goes on
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2014, 09:51:46 pm »
Quote from: Rigby
You're really kind of doing the admin thing the hard way, then.  Some of the most significant changes in the later windows versions are the remote administration capabilities that have been added/improved.  PowerShell alone is enough of a reason to take a very strong look at Windows, but if you don't look at the later versions, then you simply won't see how much things have improved, and you won't have any understanding as to why people upgrade. 
I have one small network that had to switch to Win7 (tax accountant-required by tax office) and a few one offs, so I am quite reasonably
familiar with the new system (against my will :-) ). Their "expert" managed to screw things up for weeks via remote admin. Each time I
went in and sorted it out, the old way, and got my free coffee and chat. NO THANKS, I prefer remote admin OFF. YMMV
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Offline Rigby

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2014, 10:04:38 pm »
My mileage does vary.  I'm glad to see that you put "expert" in quotes, because those guys are very often dumber than my front door.  They are in no way "experts."

Take the time to see how it's done somewhere with people that know what they're doing.  I think you'll be surprised.

I think, in general, it is very sad to see people perfectly happy with "the old way."  It indicates a complete lack of enthusiasm, to me, and it's a bit saddening.  There's so much EXTREMELY COOL stuff out there; to just say "nah, i'm good" is beyond my comprehension.

If it works for you, though, then go with it, I guess. 
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2014, 10:08:42 pm »
I still have XP and don't intend to upgrade any time soon, simply because I'm too lazy.

I haven't used a newer version of Windows. At my previous job I used XP and now I'm a technician, working in a lab environment and only use a computer at home.

I'm sure the latest version of Windows has many new features but I just don't see the point. I'll upgrade, when i need a new computer.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2014, 11:46:22 pm »
Every Windows version is crappier than the previous one... go figure. Windows7 gets just as slow over time as any Windows version has been done before.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2014, 11:58:05 pm »
I think, in general, it is very sad to see people perfectly happy with "the old way."  It indicates a complete lack of enthusiasm, to me, and it's a bit saddening.  There's so much EXTREMELY COOL stuff out there; to just say "nah, i'm good" is beyond my comprehension.

It's sad if somebody isn't enthusiastic about anything, but I think all of us have something we don't give a flying fart about. For me it's computer software...
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Offline Rigby

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2014, 01:01:59 am »
Right, but his job is system administration. 

I think it's sad that he's not interested in even looking at better ways to do his job.  Either he's too lazy to look for an easier way, he is not really interested in his job at all, or he really does think that his way is the best way available.

All three options depress me.  I'd find a new job if I was in a rut like that.
 


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