Author Topic: Goodbye Windows XP  (Read 36422 times)

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Online edavid

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #75 on: April 06, 2014, 09:11:33 pm »
I have Windows 7 on my living room computer and I like it a lot. It's been running since 2012. I've never paid for Windows 7, I haven't pirated it either. 95% of the software I use runs in "portable" mode. No registry needed, no "installation" needed. The only draw back, if you want to call it that, is that I have to re-install Windows 3 times a year. I actually consider this a good thing and it's much less trouble than you would think.

I do the opposite, when I need to set up a new Windows PC for my own use, I clone an existing Windows installation.  I find that installing Windows is always more trouble than I remember :(
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #76 on: April 07, 2014, 01:28:58 am »
that, is that I have to re-install Windows 3 times a year. I actually consider this a good thing and it's much less trouble than you would think.
Back in the old days it took me about 9 hours to setup/configure a PC with office and internet. It will be a bit quicker nowadays due to faster CPU and hard drives but not much. My own PC (XP) will take me several full days to reinstall and configure all the software. Fortunately I'm using virtual machines so setting up a new PC to test something is done in a few minutes.
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Offline Stonent

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #77 on: April 07, 2014, 02:28:47 am »
that, is that I have to re-install Windows 3 times a year. I actually consider this a good thing and it's much less trouble than you would think.
Back in the old days it took me about 9 hours to setup/configure a PC with office and internet. It will be a bit quicker nowadays due to faster CPU and hard drives but not much. My own PC (XP) will take me several full days to reinstall and configure all the software. Fortunately I'm using virtual machines so setting up a new PC to test something is done in a few minutes.

I've now taken to slipstreaming updates into my Windows 8.1 thumb drive using DISM (part of windows) so that I never have to patch an OS re-load.
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Online rdl

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #78 on: April 07, 2014, 07:31:53 am »
I need to look into using the built in Windows backup and restore. Though it only takes about 15 minutes or so to install Windows 7, it still takes me another 15-20 minutes to change all the default settings that annoy me and then install the few programs that I don't run in portable mode. It would probably be better to just make a backup right after everything is set up the way I like it, then just restore from that.
 

Offline TerraHertz

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #79 on: April 07, 2014, 11:43:37 am »
I won't be saying goodbye to WinXP until there's some non-Microsoft alternative, that isn't a Linux variant either.
Mind you, this doesn't mean I like WinXP, in fact I hate it. And the entire Wintel machine architecture. It's just that XP is the last MS OS that I can use without wanting to take an axe to the machine. I have a fairly recent Acer laptop with Win7, and find that infuriating - very rarely use it. If I ever locate XP hardware drivers for that laptop, it's getting an XP-reversion.
As for Win 8, ha ha. I regularly have to help a particular naive computer user with their Win8 laptop, and it's a nightmare. Two or three more OS version increments and there won't be any way to access the bare filesystem at all, I reckon.

Now I'm about to wipe my main desktop system and reinstall WinXP, because when I set it up last year I made the huge mistake of enabling Intel BIOS RAID, using two drives. Found it unbearably irritating due to continual HD activity noise. Tried to turn RAID off - nope, not possible. Or rather you can turn it off in BIOS config, but then BIOS cannot read the HD anymore! Nor are the drives readable in other machines or docks, to make plain images. Checked the net, sure enough, you cannot back out of Intel BIOS RAID. So much for this providing more restore options after a failure.
Even if you remove one drive, leaving just one, it's _still_ using the BIOS RAID stuff, and still makes continual access noise. No HD activity LED, nothing visible in procmon or diskmon that corresponds to the drive access bursts. It's happening way down in the BIOS.
Thank God for external USB drive docks, as an escape hatch from bullsh*t like that.

Also, I'm _gradually_ migrating to fully portable utilities, so reinstalling isn't so much of a time-eating nightmare.
Plus, keeping a checklist of all the necessary Windows config twiddles, helps.

What I like best about MS Windows, is it provides such a rich source of ideas on 'how not to structure an OS & GUI'.
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Offline Rigby

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #80 on: April 07, 2014, 01:10:48 pm »
...XP is the last MS OS that I can use without wanting to take an axe to the machine.

That says a lot more about you than it does Windows.  In fact, it makes you look like a complete nutter.

What I like best about MS Windows, is it provides such a rich source of ideas on 'how not to structure an OS & GUI'.

Pretty much the entire world disagrees with that.  I think you're likely to consider that a point in your favor, while reminding yourself that everyone except you is wrong all the time always no matter what.

So, please prove us wrong.  I'd like you to explain some technical points here about why Windows is how one should not structure an OS & GUI.  Be sure to cite your sources.  I guarantee you Microsoft has done more research with real people on UIs than you, so I'm very curious to know what your evidence-based points of contention are.

Please enlighten us to your superior evidence-based UI & OS designs.
 

Online dr.diesel

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #81 on: April 07, 2014, 01:16:33 pm »
I guarantee you Microsoft has done more research with real people on UIs than you

Windows 8?

Offline Rigby

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #82 on: April 07, 2014, 01:26:42 pm »
I guarantee you Microsoft has done more research with real people on UIs than you

Windows 8?

If you mean the Metro/Modern UI then you should say that.  I'm going to assume you are.

Again, evidence?  I'm not disagreeing, but I'm not agreeing either.  I like the Windows 8 UI.  My wife and I both use Windows Phone, as does our eldest daughter.  So if you're going to sway me, you're going to need to cite something.  Given that the Windows 8 "modern" UI is entirely optional I'm not what impact it has, really.
 

Online dr.diesel

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #83 on: April 07, 2014, 01:42:48 pm »
If you mean the Metro/Modern UI then you should say that.  I'm going to assume you are.

Again, evidence?

Yeah, I quoted the relevant comment!

Evidence?  Do you live under a rock?  Ha ha, I'm not bashing, just don't hear or read too many in favor of the new UI.

Anyhow, back to XP, hard to beat the UI, just wish the menu was at the top of the screen!

Online digsys

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #84 on: April 07, 2014, 01:52:05 pm »
Quote from: Rigby
That says a lot more about you than it does Windows.  In fact, it makes you look like a complete nutter.

Pretty much the entire world disagrees with that.  I think you're likely to consider that a point in your favor, while reminding yourself that everyone except you is wrong all the time always no matter what.

Please enlighten us to your superior evidence-based UI & OS designs. 

Who died and made you oracle ?  You rubbish anyone that disagrees with YOUR opinion and quote fanciful figures that suit you !!
You do exactly what you accuse others of. Why not just accept that maybe others have opinions as well and stop being a pompous ass.
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Offline ElektroQuark

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #85 on: April 07, 2014, 01:57:39 pm »
Anyhow, back to XP, hard to beat the UI, just wish the menu was at the top of the screen!

???
You can move it to the top of the screen.

Online dr.diesel

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #86 on: April 07, 2014, 02:01:01 pm »
???
You can move it to the top of the screen.

lol can you?  I haven't used Windows in over decade probably!  (Although I did briefly use my brother's Win8 box just to check out the new UI)

Offline ElektroQuark

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #87 on: April 07, 2014, 02:02:51 pm »
???
You can move it to the top of the screen.

lol can you?

Yes, I can ;)
You too.

Online Monkeh

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #88 on: April 07, 2014, 02:03:04 pm »
Intel BIOS RAID, using two drives.

Quote
Nor are the drives readable in other machines or docks, to make plain images. Checked the net, sure enough, you cannot back out of Intel BIOS RAID.

You can easily read them if it's a remotely modern board. Intel has used a known container format for some time. See mdadm support for imsm containers.
 

Offline elgonzo

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #89 on: April 07, 2014, 02:07:02 pm »
Anyhow, back to XP, hard to beat the UI, just wish the menu was at the top of the screen!

???
You can move it to the top of the screen.

You are talking about the Start menu/task bar. But as far as program menus are concerned, in MS Windows they are part of the program window and do not appear at the top of the screen (unlike Mac OS or Ubuntu, for example). Or do Windows 8 apps allow to relocate a program's menu (honestly, i have no clue)?
 

Offline Rigby

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #90 on: April 07, 2014, 03:42:39 pm »
???
You can move it to the top of the screen.

lol can you?  I haven't used Windows in over decade probably!  (Although I did briefly use my brother's Win8 box just to check out the new UI)

clearly an expert on windows.
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #91 on: April 07, 2014, 04:00:19 pm »
I get to maintain my wife's and stepdaughter's Win8.1 laptops.  I am really not a fan.  I find it clumsy.  For example, 1 of my printers is a Brother HL-1440 laser printer networked through an old HP JetDirect EX Plus.  The setup was smooth on all the Win7 machines, but both 8.1 laptops took about 5 minutes to find the driver online.  Once the driver was found, all worked just fine.  I did check out an HP all in one with a 23" touch screen monitor and Win8.1 did make more sense for everyday usage.  I didn't attempt to dig into various settings to see how that worked.  The sticking point for me is the $850 price tag to replace a 2 year old HP z210 with a 22" and 19" monitor.  I still prefer Win7 over 8.1.  If someone really wants me to do XP for them, I would tell them to buy good antivirus/malware tools (nothing free), keep them updated, practice safe internet and stay off of porno sites, otherwise I won't help them >:D.  I do have to admit, I do like Aero in Win7.  I don't mind a little eye candy like the see through task bar.  Then, again, I look at a computer as a tool to accomplish things, especially wasting time on the eevblog as compared to using it for social media like Facebook. :-DD
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Offline Rigby

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #92 on: April 07, 2014, 04:04:33 pm »
Quote from: Rigby
That says a lot more about you than it does Windows.  In fact, it makes you look like a complete nutter.

Pretty much the entire world disagrees with that.  I think you're likely to consider that a point in your favor, while reminding yourself that everyone except you is wrong all the time always no matter what.

Please enlighten us to your superior evidence-based UI & OS designs. 

Who died and made you oracle ?  You rubbish anyone that disagrees with YOUR opinion and quote fanciful figures that suit you !!
You do exactly what you accuse others of. Why not just accept that maybe others have opinions as well and stop being a pompous ass.

i'm not an oracle, i just want to see evidence.  anyone can scrape up all the anecdotal "all my friends tell me" weight that they want, but it's not proof.  I just want evidence and proof, not hearsay or rumor or word of mouth or anything else that isn't firm enough to stand on, that's all.

If you have an opinion, and clearly you do, then that's all it is.  I don't mind opinion, just know that opinion has zero weight when it's alone.

if you think i'm a pompous ass then maybe i am, i don't know.  you're not the first person to tell me I am on a forum, and you won't be the last.  apparently just asking for evidence of anything is being a pompous ass, and i am certainly guilty of respecting fact over opinion, even when it's my own opinion that is wrong.  my own opinion is often wrong, as is everyone else's, and i'm willing to admit it.  not everyone is.

usually i come off as a pompous ass because i can be very clinical in my approach to understanding things.  I am absolutely not trying to convey superiority or judgement.  I am not superior to anyone and i generally consider myself to be a worthless pile of mold, if that makes you feel better.
 

Online dr.diesel

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #93 on: April 07, 2014, 04:20:32 pm »

clearly an expert on windows.

Sorry, I didn't realize XP's UI changed over the years.

Anyhow, in the said decade or so past, I owned something over 400 Windows PCs.  Story for another time..

Offline Rigby

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #94 on: April 07, 2014, 04:26:56 pm »
Sorry, I didn't realize XP's UI changed over the years.

The ability to drag the taskbar (and thus, start menu) up to the top (or left or right) of the screen has been around since Windows 98 at the latest, maybe even Windows 95.  Usually it's stumbled across by accident through mis-dragging, or dragging unintentionally when a click was intended.  That's how most people find it, in my limited experience.

Just drag it around; it'll snap to the edges of the screen.
 

Online edavid

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #95 on: April 07, 2014, 05:00:54 pm »
regarding the fresh complete new install of any windows (or maybe even mac? linux?). i used to do that, then i use this method to shorten the process. i use this linux based backup utility call REDO (so it should boot from any system). its a 1CD booter, it will backup the entire drive (maybe you can find something windows based if you do not want a full HDD backup). after a good fresh re-install/install, after setting whatever config settings for windows, install drivers, setup all your fav programs, etc etc etc etc (its easily a few hours there) ... i make a full backup of that "snap shot". and i no longer do anymore clean installs, just restore from that final snap shot. really saved me alot of time

Are you saying you can restore a redo snapshot to a different machine than the one it was made?  How does that work?

 

Offline Rigby

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #96 on: April 07, 2014, 06:21:19 pm »
you can tell Windows that it's about to be imaged, and it prepares itself for cloning, removing hardware-specific stuff, and install-specific stuff such as unique GUIDs and so on.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #97 on: April 07, 2014, 09:50:05 pm »
i'm not an oracle, i just want to see evidence.  anyone can scrape up all the anecdotal "all my friends tell me" weight that they want, but it's not proof.  I just want evidence and proof, not hearsay or rumor or word of mouth or anything else that isn't firm enough to stand on, that's all.

If you have an opinion, and clearly you do, then that's all it is.  I don't mind opinion, just know that opinion has zero weight when it's alone.

if you think i'm a pompous ass then maybe i am, i don't know.  you're not the first person to tell me I am on a forum, and you won't be the last.  apparently just asking for evidence of anything is being a pompous ass, and i am certainly guilty of respecting fact over opinion, even when it's my own opinion that is wrong.  my own opinion is often wrong, as is everyone else's, and i'm willing to admit it.  not everyone is.

usually i come off as a pompous ass because i can be very clinical in my approach to understanding things.  I am absolutely not trying to convey superiority or judgement.  I am not superior to anyone and i generally consider myself to be a worthless pile of mold, if that makes you feel better.
Yes you are a pompous ass.

He just gave his opinion. It was only you who started saying the rest of the world disagrees with him. How the hell would you know what the rest of the world thinks?

In my opinion a classic example of what's wrong with Windows is the registry: lumping all the OS configuration data and program settings into a central database encoded in a proprietary format, has to be one of the most stupid design decisions ever. What on earth is wrong with storing configuration data in plain text files?
 

Offline Rigby

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #98 on: April 07, 2014, 11:09:19 pm »
Yes you are a pompous ass.

He just gave his opinion. It was only you who started saying the rest of the world disagrees with him. How the hell would you know what the rest of the world thinks?

In my opinion a classic example of what's wrong with Windows is the registry: lumping all the OS configuration data and program settings into a central database encoded in a proprietary format, has to be one of the most stupid design decisions ever. What on earth is wrong with storing configuration data in plain text files?

I just asked for evidence.  Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.  The days of me believing people solely because they sound genuine are long gone.  I didn't say he was wrong, just wanted to know how he came to that conclusion.  I suspect it is unsubstantiated and amplified opinion, and if I am wrong, that is perfectly fine with me.  I just want to KNOW and not guess.

the registry exists for the same reason process-limited memory exists; to make it hard for one application to screw with another.  Lots of viruses spread because each program that ran could get the full memory contents of another program.  That is very hard to do, now.  Its a good thing.  The registry is sort of similar, and if you want you can definitely use .ini files if you are a software author.  Nothing prevents you from using .ini files, XML files, encrypted whatever files, or storing your config in the cloud.  The registry is just a very convenient option, and one app running cannot access another's registry keys without permission, if the software author requests that level of security. 
It's just another little layer of security.

It is the software developer that chooses to store configuration to the registry, so complaints about a lack of textual config files should be directed to them.
 

Offline TerraHertz

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Re: Goodbye Windows XP
« Reply #99 on: April 08, 2014, 08:59:18 am »
That says a lot more about you than it does Windows.  In fact, it makes you look like a complete nutter.
Heh. Because NO ONE else ever expressed any frustrations with any later Windows versions?

Quote
Please enlighten us to your superior evidence-based UI & OS designs.
Since you asked in such a nice manner, without any trace of hostility or insult, and because going through a large tree of documents and summarizing them to something that would fit here would be totally worth my time for you, and additionally none of it would ever actually be commercially sensitive if by some chance these nutty ideas ended up in an actual demo OS....

No.

Btw, would I be right in guessing that you earn your living in some way associated with supporting MS Windows?
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