Author Topic: Freezer spray and air dusters - why the sudden extortionate price increase?  (Read 1153 times)

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Offline SolderSucker

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I've not had to buy any for a while but now I need some I'm shocked at the fearsome price hike. What happened? I see there are much cheaper versions available but they are apparently very flammable so they sound relatively dangerous. Or aren't they that bad?
 

Online Mr. Scram

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I've not had to buy any for a while but now I need some I'm shocked at the fearsome price hike. What happened? I see there are much cheaper versions available but they are apparently very flammable so they sound relatively dangerous. Or aren't they that bad?
Maybe it has to do with the gasses being not too great for the environment.
 

Offline SolderSucker

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Maybe it has to do with the gasses being not too great for the environment.

Fair enough, so are the cheaper alternatives not only bad for the environment but also dangerously flammable?
 

Offline langwadt

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Maybe it has to do with the gasses being not too great for the environment.

Fair enough, so are the cheaper alternatives not only bad for the environment but also dangerously flammable?

afaict the new non-flammable option is HFO-1234ze which has a global warming potential of 6. The old was R-134a, also used to be common in refrigerators, with a global warming potential of 1430

 

Offline thm_w

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Can you give some numbers? $3.50 each seems cheap enough to me: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00DZYEXPQ/ref=olp_twister_child?ie=UTF8&mv_size_name=2

Here in Canada its about $10 for a can and of course they price the "cold spray" twice as much as the duster, which is normal.
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Here in Canada its about $10 for a can and of course they price the "cold spray" twice as much as the duster, which is normal.

Put the duster upside down and it cools as well.
 

Offline blacksheeplogic

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Several years ago I bought a DataVac Electric Duster, it's paid for itself many times over.
 

Offline thm_w

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Put the duster upside down and it cools as well.

Yes, its an easy extra $10 profit for them for people who don't know or don't care.
 

Online NiHaoMike

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afaict the new non-flammable option is HFO-1234ze which has a global warming potential of 6. The old was R-134a, also used to be common in refrigerators, with a global warming potential of 1430
Or CO2 with a GWP of 1. The most eco friendly duster is air compressed with a bicycle pump, for a GWP of 0.
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Offline amyk

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You can blame the enviro-hippies... ::)

134a is almost completely replaced with 152a, but I guess they're trying to get rid of the latter too. Fortunately, 152a is still available and people continue to recharge their AC and fridges with it.
 

Offline Marck

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Re: Freezer spray and air dusters - why the sudden extortionate price increase?
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2019, 10:54:14 pm »
I worked with a refrigeration mechanic once who had an interesting theory about why air conditioners where changing from R22 to R410a.  His idea was that the patent on R22 was expiring so the drive to 410a was driven by the patent owners to maximise profits.  So if you firmly strap on your tin foil hat perhaps that could be part of the reason behind the changes? 

M

 
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: Freezer spray and air dusters - why the sudden extortionate price increase?
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2019, 11:03:03 pm »
I worked with a refrigeration mechanic once who had an interesting theory about why air conditioners where changing from R22 to R410a.  His idea was that the patent on R22 was expiring so the drive to 410a was driven by the patent owners to maximise profits.  So if you firmly strap on your tin foil hat perhaps that could be part of the reason behind the changes? 

M

r22 is ozone depleting, r410a is not
 
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Online KL27x

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Re: Freezer spray and air dusters - why the sudden extortionate price increase?
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2019, 11:07:41 pm »
Tin foil hat is unnecessary. Global warming is a business in itself.
 
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Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Freezer spray and air dusters - why the sudden extortionate price increase?
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2019, 11:17:05 pm »
r22 is ozone depleting, r410a is not
Fortunately measures like these are proving to be effective as the ozone layer is recovering. It shows that we actually can tackle problems that seem too big for individuals or even countries to fix.
 
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Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: Freezer spray and air dusters - why the sudden extortionate price increase?
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2019, 03:41:57 am »
Tin foil hat is unnecessary. Global warming is a business in itself.

Yep. More than 20 thousand are coming to Madrid next december (climate summit). Oh, for God's sake, if there's only 195 countries in the world. A big bussiness indeed. You and me pay it all. Oh dear, oh dear.
 

Online NiHaoMike

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Re: Freezer spray and air dusters - why the sudden extortionate price increase?
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2019, 03:51:37 am »
I worked with a refrigeration mechanic once who had an interesting theory about why air conditioners where changing from R22 to R410a.  His idea was that the patent on R22 was expiring so the drive to 410a was driven by the patent owners to maximise profits.  So if you firmly strap on your tin foil hat perhaps that could be part of the reason behind the changes? 
R410a is a mix of R32 and R125, the latter substantially increases the GWP. It turns out R32 by itself is a better refrigerant than R410a. I think the R125 was actually added to raise the GWP so that once the patent runs out, they have an excuse to ban it. (It also turns out that R32 will work in a R410a system with only minor tweaks.)
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Offline langwadt

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Re: Freezer spray and air dusters - why the sudden extortionate price increase?
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2019, 01:00:06 pm »
I worked with a refrigeration mechanic once who had an interesting theory about why air conditioners where changing from R22 to R410a.  His idea was that the patent on R22 was expiring so the drive to 410a was driven by the patent owners to maximise profits.  So if you firmly strap on your tin foil hat perhaps that could be part of the reason behind the changes? 
R410a is a mix of R32 and R125, the latter substantially increases the GWP. It turns out R32 by itself is a better refrigerant than R410a. I think the R125 was actually added to raise the GWP so that once the patent runs out, they have an excuse to ban it. (It also turns out that R32 will work in a R410a system with only minor tweaks.)

I believe R32 is flammable, and R125 has been used as  fire suppressant

 
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Online NiHaoMike

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Re: Freezer spray and air dusters - why the sudden extortionate price increase?
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2019, 03:42:36 pm »
I believe R32 is flammable, and R125 has been used as  fire suppressant
Except R1234yf is also flammable and there doesn't seem to be problems using it by itself.

It's also worth mentioning that the oils mixed in with the refrigerant make all refrigerants flammable.
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Offline jogri

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Re: Freezer spray and air dusters - why the sudden extortionate price increase?
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2019, 07:57:17 pm »
It's also worth mentioning that the oils mixed in with the refrigerant make all refrigerants flammable.

Not really, perfluorocarbons will extinguish any fire that forms when you get a small leak as it will just displace the oxygen. And if you have a big leak that dumps the entire content of your cooling system into your car, the oil will separate from the gaseous refrigerant and it won't ignite either. The only refrigerants that are flammable are those were not all hydrogen atoms are substituted by halogens.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Freezer spray and air dusters - why the sudden extortionate price increase?
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2019, 02:56:18 am »
To be fair, that stuff is not so great for the environment not to mention it's a consumable so not so great on the wallet eithe,  it's best to look at alternatives.  For actual dusting then use an air compressor.  For freeze testing components, suppose a freezer could work.  If you want to target it I guess some kind of air hose that sucks air from a freezer at high velocity?  Either way anything beats pumping ozone depleting and/or greenhouse gases in the air.
 

Offline BradC

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Re: Freezer spray and air dusters - why the sudden extortionate price increase?
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2019, 03:06:08 am »
For freeze testing components, suppose a freezer could work.

You'll never get anywhere near the heat transfer you get from liquid flooding the component and undergoing phase change.
The reason fluorocarbons are used are the relatively low pressure and non-flammability. You can use hydrocarbons and get the same pressure characteristics and no flammability, or CO2 for no flammability with huge pressure differences.

Pressure becomes relevant when you want to put it into an affordable and manageable can.

I use r134a and Butane. If I can work on the device outside and it has no ignition sources I use Butane. It's cheap. Otherwise I still use r134a.
 


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