General > General Technical Chat
Google's web DRM?
MrMobodies:
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2009730/vivaldi-mozilla-warn-of-googles-proposed-drm-for-the-web.html
--- Quote ---Vivaldi, Mozilla raise alarms over Google’s proposed ‘DRM for the Web’
*What happens if Gmail decides only Chrome users can access it?
Mark Hachman
By Mark Hachman
Senior Editor, PCWorld JUL 26, 2023 12:10 PM PDT
A proposed Google specification for ensuring trust on the Web has come under fire for potentially giving websites control over which browsers have the right to access them — and potentially blocking an unwanted browser from accessing a site owned by Google or Microsoft.
At issue is what Google calls Web Environment Integrity, described in this explainer uploaded to GitHub by several Google engineers. The proposal has drawn fire by both Vivaldi as well as Brian Grinstead, a senior principal engineer at Firefox developer Mozilla, who said that his company opposes the proposal as well.
Here’s what Web Environment Integrity would do, according to Google’s proposal. WEI assumes that users want to interact with real people on websites, and verify that any software downloaded from a site is legitimate. Those sites, by contrast, want to ensure that the visitors visiting the sites are “real,” not bots, but without applying a multitude of analytical signals that can identify the user.
What Google proposes doing is allowing sites to ask for a WEI token that describes “key facts about the environment their client code is running in,” such as whether or not the user is surfing from a secure Android device. It’s up to the website to decide whether they trust the token, and therefore the user.
The issue is what would happen if a website rejected a user’s token, thereby blocking them. A site like PCWorld might accept all browsers; what smaller browser makers like Vivaldi and Mozilla fear is that a large Web service like Gmail, Google Search, or other sites owned by Google might block users arriving there via a small, alternative browser.
Vivaldi explained its concerns in a blog post. “Simply, if an entity has the power of deciding which browsers are trusted and which are not, there is no guarantee that they will trust any given browser,” Julian Picalausa, a software developer at the company, wrote. “Any new browser would by default not be trusted until they have somehow demonstrated that they are trustworthy, to the discretion of the attesters. Also, anyone stuck running on legacy software where this spec is not supported would eventually be excluded from the web.”
“While this seems like a noble motivation, and the use cases listed seem very reasonable, the solution proposed is absolutely terrible and has already been equated with DRM for websites, with all that it implies,” Picalusa added.
This issue has cropped up before, in a different context. Mozilla, for example, has published research noting how operating systems steer users to their own browsers. Microsoft threw up roadblocks to moving away from Edge in Windows 11 before changing its browser-choice approach. Vivaldi has previously complained about Microsoft throwing up ads when you try to download an alternative to Edge.
Both browser companies, therefore, are sensitive to a company like Google potentially sidelining them. As it is, companies like Vivaldi, Mozilla and Opera provide browsers to just a few percent of users on the Web.
WEI’s controversy doesn’t appear to be ending anytime soon. One of the Google developers, Ben Wiser, noted that the backlash has shown that a “bigger discussion needs to take place.” Proponents of an Open Web hope that it will.
--- End quote ---
*Well if it is going to be all your's and then I don't want it.
https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/issues?page=4&q=is%3Aissue
Doesn't seem to be going down good.
4 Pages of hatred see attachments
I am a bit confused. If this proposal by one individual named "Rupert Ben Wiser"?
https://github.com/RupertBenWiser
benwiser.com
Is that arrogance and self importance I see and as in name?
https://stackdiary.com/web-environment-integrity/
--- Quote ---Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible
One of the Google employees who authored the paper (Rupert Ben Wiser) has made a comment on GitHub saying that they are feeling the backlash: read it here (https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/issues/28#issuecomment-1651129388).
--- End quote ---
So it is him one individual.
--- Quote ---RupertBenWiser commented 13 hours ago
Hey everyone, thank you for your patience, and thank you to everyone who engaged constructively :bullshit:. It is clear based on the feedback we’ve received that a bigger discussion needs to take place, :bullshit: * and I’m not sure my personal repository is the best place to do that) [/b][/i]- we are looking for a better forum and will update when we have found one. We want to continue the discussion and collaborate to address your core concerns in an improved explainer.
I want to be transparent about the perceived silence from my end. In the W3C process it is common for individuals to put forth early proposals for new web standards, and host them in a team member's personal repository while pursuing adoption within a standards body. My first impulse was to jump in with more information as soon as possible - but our team wanted to take in all the feedback, and be thorough in our response.
That being said, I did want to take a moment to clarify the problems our team is trying to solve that exist on the web today and point out key details of this early stage proposal that may have been missed.
WEI’s goal is to make the web more private :bullshit: and *safe
The WEI experiment is part of a larger goal to keep the web safe and open while discouraging cross-site tracking and lessening the reliance on fingerprinting for combating fraud and abuse. :bullshit: Fraud detection and mitigation techniques often rely heavily on analyzing unique client behavior over time for anomalies, which involves large collection of client data from both human users and suspected automated clients.
...
--- End quote ---
What doesn't he understand in, THEY DON'T WANT HIS PROPOSAL and end of no discussion?
Reminds me of something about Nadhim Zahawi and the School Bill that got withdrawn where he wanted more power for Whitehall.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/jun/30/government-announces-u-turn-on-schools-bill-after-criticism
--- Quote ---Thank you to everyone who engaged constructively
--- End quote ---
Sounds to me very arrogant and playing the high ground/pretending to be assertive despite the majority against it.
I don't find anything constructive about ignoring the backlash.
Nominal Animal:
--- Quote from: MrMobodies on July 26, 2023, 08:55:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: Rupert Ben Wiser ---Thank you to everyone who engaged constructively
--- End quote ---
Sounds to me very arrogant and playing the high ground/pretending to be assertive despite the majority against it.
--- End quote ---
This has become the standard approach in software development, putting surface communications skills, social pressure, and human interest narratives above any technical concerns.
I first started noticing it in Debian – of all places! –, so it is not just an US industry thing.
I blame universities, shifting from educating people to indoctrinating them.
MrMobodies:
Oh look he removed his LinkedIn Profile from public view but URL still there so must be recent:
Signed into my MrMobodies Linkedin account and the profile does exist.
See attachment
Now I wonder why would he do this?
coppice:
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on July 26, 2023, 09:58:32 pm ---
--- Quote from: MrMobodies on July 26, 2023, 08:55:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: Rupert Ben Wiser ---Thank you to everyone who engaged constructively
--- End quote ---
Sounds to me very arrogant and playing the high ground/pretending to be assertive despite the majority against it.
--- End quote ---
This has become the standard approach in software development, putting surface communications skills, social pressure, and human interest narratives above any technical concerns.
I first started noticing it in Debian – of all places! –, so it is not just an US industry thing.
I blame universities, shifting from educating people to indoctrinating them.
--- End quote ---
Some people study the cuckoo, and see a plan for their own lives.
PlainName:
--- Quote ---I am a bit confused. If this proposal by one individual named "Rupert Ben Wiser"?
https://github.com/RupertBenWiser
--- End quote ---
Lennart wannabe.
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