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Google's web DRM?

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MrMobodies:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on July 26, 2023, 09:58:32 pm ---I blame universities, shifting from educating people to indoctrinating them.
--- End quote ---
If that is true then he'd be indoctrinated out here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/💾-ben-wiser-b55b2911a/

--- Quote ---Monash South Africa (University in Roodepoort, South Africa)
Computer and information sciences, Computer Science
2014 - 2016
Grade: 78
--- End quote ---

https://3di-ltd.com/About-Us#Contact

--- Quote ---3d innovations
288 Bishopsgate
London

enquiries@3di-ltd.co.uk
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---Back End DeveloperBack End Developer
Forge (London)
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---Software Engineer
Amazon
Apr 2019 - Feb 2022 · 2 yrs 11 mos
London, United Kingdom
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---Software Engineer
Google
--- End quote ---

--- Quote ---35 jobs available
If there any Google office in UK?
We opened our first Google office in the UK in 2003 and we've since grown to thousands of employees, with teams in engineering, sales, and many other roles. Our diversity of teams enables us to make an impact both within Google and in the UK.
--- End quote ---

Born or went half way around the world to University then come to Britain and get jobs but only in London.

I wonder if this is his company:
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11058044
https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/11058044-wiser-results-ltd

--- Quote ---WISER RESULTS LTD
Company number 11058044
Incorporated on 10 November 2017

WISER, Ben
Appointed on 10 November 2017
London
Occupation Consultant
--- End quote ---

https://whois.domaintools.com/benwiser.com

--- Quote ---Whois Record for BenWiser.com
Domain Profile
Registrar   GoDaddy.com, LLC
IANA ID: 146

Dates   2,359 days old
Created on 2017-02-08
Expires on 2024-02-08
Updated on 2023-02-09
Greater London - Islington - Digitalocean Llc
--- End quote ---

https://www.linkedin.com/in/💾-ben-wiser-b55b2911a/

--- Quote ---Ben Wiser
Junior Software Engineer
3di (3d innovations) · Full-time3di (3d innovations) · Full-time
Mar 2017 - Jun 2017 · 4 mosMar 2017 - Jun 2017 · 4 mos
Skills: JavaScript
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---Software Engineer
Google Mar 2022 - Present · 1 yr 5 mos
Doing cool things for privacy :bullshit:  on the embedded Web on Android.
--- End quote ---
He has only been there for a year and come up with this idea.

It makes me think whether someone at Google or outside is influencing/incentivising him.

According Endole IF that is his company it is in -£69,663 liabilities 83.32% debt ratio from last year and it seems he is renting flat looking at his address.

Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: MrMobodies on July 26, 2023, 11:00:08 pm ---Born or went half way around the world to University then come to Britain and get jobs in London.
--- End quote ---
Well, I am not interested in him personally, only on his behaviour and how that affects projects and technology that affect my life to a large degree.

His behaviour matches a pattern I've observed in large enough projects (regardless of whether they're proprietary or open source), with university education in IT being an immediate common factor.  But what do I know?  Nothing much, really; and even when I do, I'm often wrong.  That's why I wrote I blame.  I did study and work in a couple of Universities, for over a decade myself.

Anyway, using social engineering (or "social gaming", as I often call it) to override factual and technical criticisms, is one of my buttons.

I see absolutely nothing positive for the end user in this, nor any reasonable technical basis for the initiative, except to exploit users further, by wresting the choice and control of the software and hardware from the human end user to the corporation running a website –– or, is providing internet service to that user, as that seems more likely to be the true goal behind this initiative to me.  Paranoid? No, I do not think so in this case, because the corporation at hand is one of those that already considers its users the true product it sells.

MrMobodies:
https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/issues?page=1&q=is%3Aissue

--- Quote ---Cowards Cowards #138 Closed
pivotman319-owo opened this issue 5 days ago

Enough said.

Breaking apart the Internet won't help anyone.

yoavweiss closed this as completed Jul 24, 2023
--- End quote ---

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on July 26, 2023, 11:56:46 pm ---Well, I am not interested in him personally, only on his behaviour and how that affects projects and technology that affect my life to a large degree.

His behaviour matches a pattern I've observed in large enough projects (regardless of whether they're proprietary or open source), with university education in IT being an immediate common factor.
--- End quote ---
I wonder if coward is one of them?

Just found that yoavweiss (who closed the thread above down) wrote an entry in his blog that seems to be about this four days before it:
https://blog.yoav.ws/posts/web_platform_change_you_do_not_like/

--- Quote ---So, you don't like a web platform proposal
How can you influence the web platform so that a change you don't like is less likely to get shipped?

20 Jul 2023

Has this ever happened to you?

You wake up one morning, scrolling the feeds while sipping your coffee, when all of the sudden you land on a post related to a web platform proposal that you really don't like. Worse, one that you believe would have significant negative consequences on the web if shipped?

At that point, you may feel that your insights and experience can be valuable to help steer the platform from making what you're sure is a huge mistake. That's great!! Getting involved in web platform discussions is essential to ensure it's built for and by everyone.

At the same time, there are some pitfalls you may want to avoid when engaging in those discussions.

Given that the above has certainly happened to me, here are some lessons I learned in my years working on the web platform, both before and after I was employed by a browser vendor.

#Things to bear in mind
#Don't assume consensus nor finished state
Often a proposal is just that - someone trying to solve a problem by proposing technical means to address it. Having a proposal sent out to public forums doesn't necessarily imply that the sender's employer is determined on pushing that proposal as is.

It also doesn't mean that the proposal is "done" and the proposal authors won't appreciate constructive suggestions for improvement. Different proposals may be in different stages of their development, and early stage proposals are often extremely malleable.

All that means is that with the right kind of feedback at the right time you can raise concerns early, and significantly increase the chance they would be properly addressed and mitigated.

#Don't assume a hidden agenda
When thinking about a new proposal, it's often safe to assume that Occam's razor is applicable and the reason it is being proposed is that the team proposing it is trying to tackle the use cases the proposal handles. While the full set of organizational motivations behind supporting certain use cases may not always public (e.g. a new device type not yet announced, legal obligations, etc), the use cases themselves should give a clear enough picture of what is being solved.

#Avoid legal language
The fastest way to get someone working for a large corporation to disengage from a discussion is by using legal or quasi-legal language. Such language will prevent them from replying to your claims without talking to their corporate legal counsel, which will probably mean they will not reply to your claims. If you want to have a productive exchange with the folks making the proposal, it's best to not pretend you're a lawyer. (and if you are one, may be best to pretend you're not)

#We're all humans
Every one working on the web platform is a human being, with human feelings, who's trying to do their job. Even if you disagree with their choice of employment, their technical decisions or their conclusions, that doesn't change that fact.

To be more concrete and clear, personal attacks or threats addressed at the folks working on the platform are not OK. That's not how you get your voice heard, that's how you get yourself banned!

#What should I do then?
#Be the signal, not the noise
In cases where controversial browser proposals (or lack of adoption for features folks want, which is a related, but different, subject), it's not uncommon to see issues with dozens or even hundreds of comments from presumably well-intentioned folks, trying to influence the team working on the feature to change their minds.

In the many years I've been working on the web platform, I've yet to see this work. Not even once.

On the receiving end, this creates a deluge of emails that's very hard to sort out. While some of those may be full of technical insights, it's very hard to find them in that pile and distinguish them from the other forms of commentary. So while it may feel good to join a good old-fashioned internet pile-up, it's very unlikely to lead to the outcomes you actually want.

You should instead try to provide meaningful technical feedback (more on that in the next section), and do that in places where that signal is less likely to drown in the noise.

#Provide technical arguments
There are a few things you want to focus on when debating technical proposals.

#Use cases
The use cases the proposal tackles are typically the core of the problem the team pushing the proposal is trying to solve. Everything else flows from that. Focusing on use cases would enable you to distill the essence of the proposal, and potentially propose alternatives that still address them without the bits you find harmful or risky.

In some cases, you may consider the use cases themselves to be ones you think shouldn't be supported on the web. If that's the case, if I'm being honest, you're up for an uphill battle. But you can still make your case by building a solid argument as to why these use cases shouldn't be supported on the web, while considering the different trade-offs that support for them or lack-thereof would entail. At the very least, that would help you establish a common language with the feature's proponents and have a frank discussion regarding the trade-offs.

In other cases, adjacent use cases you may care about are not covered by the proposal. Raising issues on that front can help expand the proposal to cover those use cases or at the very least ensure that it can be expanded in the future.

#Risks
If the proposal contains risks in terms of compatibility, interoperability, or any other risks to the open and safe nature of the web platform, that's something worthwhile pointing out.

Any such risks need to be addressed by the proposal and properly mitigated before that feature is shipped. That doesn't mean that any claim for risks would be taken at face value, but if your arguments about the risk are sound, you can expect the proposal owners to respond to them.

#Considered alternatives
Another area to focus on is what an alternative proposal that addresses the use cases may look like. In many cases, such alternatives are already outlined in the proposal's explainer, with their trade-offs spelled out. But it's also possible that some reasonable alternative was not considered, and could be an improvement on the current proposal. If such an alternative comes to mind, that could be good feedback to the team working on the feature, so that they can consider it and potentially change course.

#Use professional language and be kind
This should come without saying, but.. people are less likely to understand and internalize your constructive feedback when it's littered with distracting and unprofessional language.

Beyond that, you should remember that on the other end of the keyboard there are humans that are trying to do their job to the best that they can. They are most likely stressed out about engaging publicly regarding their project and how it'd be received. Even if you disagree with them or even the premise of their work, providing your feedback with kindness and empathy has literally no downsides. You can deliver the exact same message without the sarcasm.

#So, get (constructively) involved!
Obviously, the above doesn't guarantee that the next point of feedback you provide on a proposal would be accepted and integrated. But at the same time, I think these guidelines can increase your chances of being heard and impacting the outcome of the discussions you're involved in. And after all, that's the point of getting involved, right?

Thanks to Johann Hofmann for reviewing an early draft of this post!
--- End quote ---

In my case it is not about "not liking" it.

There are lots of things I don't like that I have to use extensions, like to hide fixed headers, suggestions, fake loading spinners, dimming overlays (well that affects my eyes too when large parts sudden change tone of colour), animated placeholders that flash and annoy me and slow the whole webpage down but it doesn't stop me from viewing the contents.

Giving someone firmware level access and control to my device over a webpage and asking to trust them, then dictate what I can and cannot see is a big nono no matter what they say or claim to do.

amyk:
I've seen this news show up on other sites too, and IMO it deserves to. Google is attacking a big part of what makes the web great --- you can use whatever browser you want to access sites in a way that makes sense for you. There are currently obstructions to doing that, but they're still not too hard to overcome. Now they want to use cryptography to absolutely lock it down. I do wonder what makes people like him actually associate his real identity with it - maybe he's trying to attract the other DRM control-freaks at the {RI,MP}AA?

MrMobodies:

--- Quote from: amyk on July 27, 2023, 12:35:14 am ---Google Ben Wise is attacking a big part of what makes the web great ... Now they Ben Wise wants to use cryptography to absolutely lock it down for his benefit. I do wonder what makes people like him actually associate his real identity with it
--- End quote ---
Joke: Arrogance and self importance.

Maybe they could design an extension called "Go away Ben Wise" to get around such nonsense just like what happened to David Cameron and his DNS web filter idea.


--- Quote ---RupertBenWiser commented 13 hours ago
I want to be transparent about the perceived silence from my end.
--- End quote ---
Isn't there NOTHING transparent giving access to someone's firmware and blocking access to websites/content?


--- Quote ---That being said, I did want to take a moment to clarify the problems  :bullshit: our team is trying to solve that exist on the web today   :bullshit: and point out key details of this early stage proposal that may have been missed.
--- End quote ---
What PROBLEMS? (Their problem?)


--- Quote ---WEI’s goal is to make the web more private
--- End quote ---
I think what he may mean is to make websites/content private specific to the device and account in question using accessing it therefore safe for the copyright holders.

Here is how he sounds from one of his Youtube videos:


It is a speculation of mine that he is desperate for something whether it be cash or career promises if he puts his name on it and pushes through with it and if not him it'd be someone else desperate enough who'd have a go at it.

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