Author Topic: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA  (Read 4586 times)

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Online ejeffrey

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2023, 07:06:19 pm »
Should be the first of many new generation plants. Fossil fuel emissions are an urgent problem and renewables aren't going to take up the slack by themselves.

There are no new nuclear plants even seriously in the planning stage in the US and it's unthinkable that other than Vogtle reactors 3 and 4, any new nuclear power will come online before 2030.  Even with a dramatically increased nuclear program it would probably be 2040 at the earliest before we could see a significant impact on the total US generation mix. All the while renewable energy is deploying the equivalent of 5 large nuclear plants per year, doing it cheaper and on time.

We should build more nuclear plants for the long run, but they are completely incapable of addressing anything "urgently".  That needed to happen a decade or more ago.  In fact it did happen with the Summer and Vogtle projects but they turned into catastrophes. Now, instead of having a dozen or more plants under construction we have no new projects.  The nuclear industry had its chance and failed. It was not due to lack of government support, NIMBY, or environmental interference, but due to being unable to deliver on promises.

Of course mileage may vary in other countries, but mostly everywhere but China and India are mostly moving away from nuclear and would take years to reverse those trends.
 
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Offline metertech58761

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2023, 04:11:18 am »
ONLY 1.1 gigawatts?

Great River Energy's Coal Creek Station in North Dakota puts out 1.15 gigawatts...

GRE was months away from shutting down the plant (and starting demolition) as part of its effort to purge coal from its portfolio when two other groups stepped forward to buy the plant and its +/- 400kV DC line.
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2023, 02:24:10 pm »
And one day they'll discover that the windmills are slowing the rotational velocity of the earth.
 

Online ejeffrey

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2023, 03:33:58 pm »
ONLY 1.1 gigawatts?

Great River Energy's Coal Creek Station in North Dakota puts out 1.15 gigawatts...

That's from two generators. The two new reactors here are 1.1 GWe each, so very nearly twice the size of those coal generators.  And the existing two operational reactors at the Vogtle plant are about 1.2 GWe each, so the total site should be producing around 4.6 GW once the fourth reactor is operating at capacity.
 

Online JustMeHereTopic starter

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2023, 06:32:06 pm »
For Info, just to the north of these reactors are tritium reactors for making nukes, and just to the east of these reactors is where the neutrino was discovered.
 

Offline gnuarm

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2023, 03:39:45 am »
It's kind of funny when talking to those who support nuclear power.  In the US, all you need to do to kill any thought of building nuclear power plants is to say the US government will not guarantee loans, and will not guarantee the price paid for the power generated.  Then no one will put a penny into any part of building these monster projects. 

People focus on how safe the operation is, how we've had so few accidents (if you phrase is just right, you can say zero) and how little existing nuclear power costs.  But they don't look at what it takes to build new construction for nuclear. 

The two new reactors which failed in South Carolina bankrupted Westinghouse Nuclear.  That's quite a clear indication that new construction of nuclear power generation is pretty much dead in the US.
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Offline AlbertL

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2023, 09:39:07 pm »
A $30 billion dollar plant, and this is what you get for a control room?  https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/first-class-of-vogtle-3--4-nuclear-operators-pass-nrc-licensing-exam-300346151.html .  I suppose they charge extra if you want real lights, switches and gauges.  "Shoulda bought an RBMK!"
Those consoles with huge Stackpole/Sealectro switches are totally old-school.  Modern controls systems with screens that reconfigure to show diagrammatically what the system is doing are much better for human-machine interface.
Jon
When the *** hits the fan its nice to have mechanical/non-electrical measurements that are standalone/reliable or at least as a double check.

At least they didn't skimp on the operating system - note the logo on the screen at the bottom center!  :scared:
« Last Edit: August 08, 2023, 10:12:48 pm by AlbertL »
 

Online JustMeHereTopic starter

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2023, 04:54:15 am »
A $30 billion dollar plant, and this is what you get for a control room?  https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/first-class-of-vogtle-3--4-nuclear-operators-pass-nrc-licensing-exam-300346151.html .  I suppose they charge extra if you want real lights, switches and gauges.  "Shoulda bought an RBMK!"
Those consoles with huge Stackpole/Sealectro switches are totally old-school.  Modern controls systems with screens that reconfigure to show diagrammatically what the system is doing are much better for human-machine interface.
Jon
When the *** hits the fan its nice to have mechanical/non-electrical measurements that are standalone/reliable or at least as a double check.

At least they didn't skimp on the operating system - note the logo on the screen at the bottom center!  :scared: (Attachment Link)

That could very well be Windows Embedded Industrial.  I've seen that before on ATMs. 
« Last Edit: August 09, 2023, 04:56:49 am by JustMeHere »
 

Offline Veteran68

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2023, 02:45:16 pm »
Or that particularly workstation could just be a standard Windows desktop and not a critical part of the reactor control system.
 

Offline gnuarm

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2023, 03:46:46 pm »
Or that particularly workstation could just be a standard Windows desktop and not a critical part of the reactor control system.

Even if it is a non-critical part, no one is going to upgrade the OS unless there is a reason.  I recall they used Windows NT on a US naval vessel which had some fatal error that nearly stranded the ship.  The point of sticking with NT was because it was a known entity, but in the end, known or not, Windows was just not stable enough to depend on.

Maybe they should have used OS/2?
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Offline WatchfulEye

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2023, 07:50:41 pm »
At least they didn't skimp on the operating system - note the logo on the screen at the bottom center!  :scared: (Attachment Link)
Got a laugh from me, but that's a file photo from 2016 from when they opened the simulation facility.

The main plant indicator displays in the background run on QNX.

The main plant controllers are modular units based on apparently MC68360 MCUs. ( https://www.westinghousenuclear.com/Portals/0/operating%20plant%20services/automation/safety%20related%20platforms/NA-0113%20Common%20Q%20Platform.pdf )

 
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Offline srb1954

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2023, 10:10:03 pm »
At least they didn't skimp on the operating system - note the logo on the screen at the bottom center!  :scared: (Attachment Link)
Got a laugh from me, but that's a file photo from 2016 from when they opened the simulation facility.

The main plant indicator displays in the background run on QNX.

The main plant controllers are modular units based on apparently MC68360 MCUs. ( https://www.westinghousenuclear.com/Portals/0/operating%20plant%20services/automation/safety%20related%20platforms/NA-0113%20Common%20Q%20Platform.pdf )
Things must move awfully slow in the world of nuclear control electronics if they were still using MC68360s as late as 2018, as indicated by the brochure date. I would have thought that the MC68360 was well and truly obsolete by then.

I considered the MC68360 for a project in 2003 but decided it was too long in the tooth even back then. I used its successor, the PowerQUICC, instead and even that chip is now obsolete.
 

Offline gnuarm

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2023, 10:20:47 pm »
At least they didn't skimp on the operating system - note the logo on the screen at the bottom center!  :scared: (Attachment Link)
Got a laugh from me, but that's a file photo from 2016 from when they opened the simulation facility.

The main plant indicator displays in the background run on QNX.

The main plant controllers are modular units based on apparently MC68360 MCUs. ( https://www.westinghousenuclear.com/Portals/0/operating%20plant%20services/automation/safety%20related%20platforms/NA-0113%20Common%20Q%20Platform.pdf )
Things must move awfully slow in the world of nuclear control electronics if they were still using MC68360s as late as 2018, as indicated by the brochure date. I would have thought that the MC68360 was well and truly obsolete by then.

I considered the MC68360 for a project in 2003 but decided it was too long in the tooth even back then. I used its successor, the PowerQUICC, instead and even that chip is now obsolete.

Like the military, everything has to be qualified, a very expensive process.  So, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Offline AlbertL

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2023, 03:34:01 am »
A $30 billion dollar plant, and this is what you get for a control room?  https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/first-class-of-vogtle-3--4-nuclear-operators-pass-nrc-licensing-exam-300346151.html .  I suppose they charge extra if you want real lights, switches and gauges.  "Shoulda bought an RBMK!"
Those consoles with huge Stackpole/Sealectro switches are totally old-school.  Modern controls systems with screens that reconfigure to show diagrammatically what the system is doing are much better for human-machine interface.
Jon

But they'll never be as cool as this:
 

Offline gnuarm

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2023, 04:05:19 am »
I feel like I've been Rick rolled.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2023, 06:09:15 am »
A $30 billion dollar plant, and this is what you get for a control room?  https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/first-class-of-vogtle-3--4-nuclear-operators-pass-nrc-licensing-exam-300346151.html .  I suppose they charge extra if you want real lights, switches and gauges.  "Shoulda bought an RBMK!"

 

Offline AlbertL

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2023, 10:47:23 am »
At least they didn't skimp on the operating system - note the logo on the screen at the bottom center!  :scared: (Attachment Link)
Got a laugh from me, but that's a file photo from 2016 from when they opened the simulation facility.

The main plant indicator displays in the background run on QNX.

The main plant controllers are modular units based on apparently MC68360 MCUs. ( https://www.westinghousenuclear.com/Portals/0/operating%20plant%20services/automation/safety%20related%20platforms/NA-0113%20Common%20Q%20Platform.pdf )

And it's got a "data highway"!  Now this is a real data highway: https://www.showmecables.com/14-awg-50-conductor-600v-stranded-conductor-unshielded-vntc-tray-cable-per-foot  ;D
 

Offline stevelup

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Re: Great Scott 1.21 (almost) Jigowatts -- new reactor in USA
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2023, 06:44:29 am »
the link straight up pops a paywall, would be good if possible to screenscrape a part of the article perhaps ?

I take your paywall and raise you to GDPR stupidity:-

1857016-0
 


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