General > General Technical Chat
H5N1 bird flu and how we're risking another global pandemic
AVGresponding:
--- Quote from: Halcyon on May 04, 2024, 02:57:16 am ---
--- Quote from: Wallace Gasiewicz on May 04, 2024, 01:34:53 am ---There arge instances of immunization not working as intended and causing untoward reactions when the patient gets infected. Past RSV immunizations are an example.
--- End quote ---
No one is disputing that a small number of people will have adverse reactions. It does happen. But rather, for the vast majority of the population (i.e.: almost everyone), it has a positive impact overall.
--- End quote ---
You're wasting your time; in the words of Simon and Garfunkel, "The man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".
This is why I don't participate in these types of thread, they just attract the conspiracy nuts, and others, all of whom have apparently zero understanding of epidemiology, or statisitics and how to interpret them.
Halcyon:
--- Quote from: AVGresponding on May 04, 2024, 07:15:26 am ---
--- Quote from: Halcyon on May 04, 2024, 02:57:16 am ---
--- Quote from: Wallace Gasiewicz on May 04, 2024, 01:34:53 am ---There arge instances of immunization not working as intended and causing untoward reactions when the patient gets infected. Past RSV immunizations are an example.
--- End quote ---
No one is disputing that a small number of people will have adverse reactions. It does happen. But rather, for the vast majority of the population (i.e.: almost everyone), it has a positive impact overall.
--- End quote ---
You're wasting your time; in the words of Simon and Garfunkel, "The man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".
This is why I don't participate in these types of thread, they just attract the conspiracy nuts, and others, all of whom have apparently zero understanding of epidemiology, or statisitics and how to interpret them.
--- End quote ---
Sure, but my aim isn't to change the minds of those who are set in their ways, rather try to educate those who are willing to listen and consider facts from different sources. If we let the conspiracies run wild, there would be nothing other than "vaccines are poison" and "5G activates the nano-robots".
But yes you're right, these types of threads generally have a finite life, after which it just becomes utter chaos.
Wallace Gasiewicz:
You are not doing your homework. The past RSV immunization was a disaster.
When the immunized children got RSV after getting the immunization they became more ill than they would have had been otherwise.
It was not just a very few who had an untoward reaction. It is probably an example of "blocking antibody" which is why I mentioned it.
This was an old vaccine from the 1960s. There are now newer, different RSV vaccines.
From The Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal
https://journals.lww.com/pidj/fulltext/2019/10000/respiratory_syncytial_virus_vaccines__are_we.23.aspx
QUOTE:
RSV vaccine development has been hindered after the safety concerns of the first RSV vaccine that was developed in the 1960s. The formalin-inactivated-whole virus alum-precipitated vaccine, which recent evidence indicating that it was directed against post-F, was associated in naive infants, but not older children, with enhanced RSV disease (ERD) and 2 deaths upon subsequent exposure to natural RSV. The mechanisms of ERD are not well understood, but it appears that an excess of non-neutralizing antibodies coupled with a skewed T-helper 2 (Th2) immune response, and complement deposition in the lungs contributed to its development. This is a critical aspect that is being considered for the development of inactivated vaccines, and strategies to assess safety risks according to the different vaccine platforms in the infant population are required.
I suppose I should inform the Journal that they are Conspiracy Nuts who have no understanding of epidemiology or statistics
Since we are quoting present day pop philosophy , how about: It Can't Happen Here by Zappa
coppice:
--- Quote from: Halcyon on May 04, 2024, 01:21:11 am ---
--- Quote from: coppice on May 03, 2024, 02:16:01 pm ---Do you realise that if you keep taking a vaccine you loose immunity to the disease it is for? This is one of the body's regulatory mechanisms, which limits auto-immune diseases from wiping us out.
--- End quote ---
Coppice, come on! I expected better from you. This isn't the case at all.
--- End quote ---
So, you think more and more is better and better? That's unlikely to be true. Everything in a biological system is about balance. Not to little of something and not too much. Why would you expect the immune system to be any different? Try reading on the topic, and you'll find exposure to pathogens, whether natural or mutated ones in vaccines, is the same kind of balancing act as most other things you may put in your body. There are reasons why vaccines have a dosage program, and its more than just too much is wasteful. Try reading on the topic. COVID got me interested in the immune system, so I read. There is plenty of easily accessible material out there. The interplay of the immune response to infections, and how well the body cleans up its own mutations, and avoids them developing into tumours is really interesting. The thymus is a pretty interesting organ, that's only really active in early childhood, and whose purpose is to help train the body's immune system to distinguish self from non-self. Without that functioning a baby descends into an auto-immune death spiral. The thymus is a fascinating natural solution to bootstrapping a functional system.
Most of what people colloquially refer to as vaccine booster programs aren't. A lot of people say they take a flu shot each year, like its the same shot over and over. It isn't. Its a new cocktail every year, based on the flu variants that seem to be around.
m k:
Around here original flu shot gave some narcolepsy symptoms, mostly permanent I guess.
Then the vast majority of vocal minority were crying major error in vaccine.
Adjuvant was the supposed cause back then, also a must for enough shots in time, of unknown H1N1 spreading.
Spanish flu was the obvious scare, and dropping out from the vaccine queue.
Same time China was giving that same vaccine and quite a bit more than here.
Final outcome, that had only very little news coverage, was that vaccine wasn't the thing, it was genetical.
So the live virus, that was not present in vaccine, was the reason, combined with a genetical exposure.
Good thing was that all compensations were left in place, without any hassle.
One other thing, live viruses and their doings.
My guess is that many don't understand what it means for everyday life and exposure.
Especially when very viral bug is in question, like norovirus.
One thought for young vs. old.
If virus goes to lungs it's, up to the point, good the have worse than better immunity.
Very good immunity can hit back so hard the you'll finally suffocate.
Then there is this society vs. individual.
Maybe a poll of how high hit rate one would still try to miss.
I've heard that some have tried 1/6.
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