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| Hackers Can Now Trick USB Chargers To Destroy Your Devices |
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| asmi:
--- Quote from: blueskull on August 13, 2020, 03:42:11 pm ---All fast charge standards are backwards compatible, and each have their unique way of entering. Without triggering it, it does not output high voltage, unless in this topic where it gets intentionally hacked. --- End quote --- It should not do that, but that doesn't mean it won't. Like I said repeatedly (and you repeatedly ignored), this condition is a known failure mode of USB PD that all compliant devices have to be tested against. So no USB-C compliant device will receive any damage if power supply will provide the maximum voltage right from the get go. This, of course, will not work if some "genius" decides that 20 V is not high enough and allow going nigher in their "custom" protocol pulled out of his ass. --- Quote from: blueskull on August 13, 2020, 03:42:11 pm ---In the next few years you will not say the same thing. 10 years ago nobody would consider USB to deliver 100 watts of power. --- End quote --- I can pretty much guarantee you it won't happen, at least not here. In China - maybe, they seem to enjoy killing their own people. |
| asmi:
--- Quote from: blueskull on August 13, 2020, 04:51:13 pm ---You are confusing design issues with engineering issues. A bad design is fundamentally flawed, a bad engineering can be improved. Safety hazards on fundamental logic is a design issue, safety hazards on bugs and sabotage is an engineering issue, which can be fixed. --- End quote --- Again you skipped the most relevant part. Compliant USB-C device is immune to the "attack" described here by design. It's only by adhoc "improvements" done by incompetent people is how you wreck everything. --- Quote from: blueskull on August 13, 2020, 04:51:13 pm ---That's how your country enters the third world. --- End quote --- No, it's the opposite - killing your own people is how countries stay in the third world, which is where China is right now, and where it will stay for foreseeable future. |
| asmi:
--- Quote from: blueskull on August 13, 2020, 06:25:13 pm ---If you dump 20V to a laptop's type C port when it is in 5V source mode like a normal USB host, even if it is rated for 20V, it WILL blow up. --- End quote --- Voltage can't be "dumped" anywhere - that's not how it works. If you connect bad charger that is stuck at HV for some reason, nothing bad will happen if the port is designed and tested properly. --- Quote from: blueskull on August 13, 2020, 06:25:13 pm ---Power role settings can make critical differences. SMC fuck ups is the No. 1 reason why MacBook, particularly 12" ones, blow up its USB port. And Apple is not the only one. Other computers are also known to blow up if you source voltage to its C port without negotiation. It is the responsibility of the PSU not to fuck up and I have no idea why anyone will think it is the device's responsibility to survive a bad PSU. Standard protection against a bad PSU is TVS+fuse, and if the fuse pops, you need to service it. It has been the main protection of devices for the past century and I see no reason to change this paradigm. --- End quote --- Again, the fact that someone screwed up doesn't mean it's impossible to implement properly. It's just someone is either incompetent, or they knowingly decided to cut corners in implementation, relying on a second party to behave properly. --- Quote from: blueskull on August 13, 2020, 06:25:13 pm ---I shouldn't have been wasting my time discussing industrial design issues with someone from a country making its main income from selling natural resource. --- End quote --- :-DD :-DD :-DD |
| SilverSolder:
Consumers do see fast charging as a benefit when buying a phone - that, and large capacity batteries, and/or low power consumption. Especially now that smartphones are no longer a "new thing", even Grandma knows what their main shortcoming is... i.e., they run out of power, usually at the most inconvenient / annoying times! So, I would definitely expect technology to keep moving in the direction of faster charging, since that is cheaper/lighter than installing a bigger battery... PS. I still don't see why a MOSFET in series with the incoming power won't solve the protection problem. It can just block the power if the phone can't handle the voltage. No need for crowbars etc - just go to a high impedance state. |
| NiHaoMike:
--- Quote from: blueskull on August 13, 2020, 03:42:11 pm ---10 years ago nobody would consider USB to deliver 100 watts of power. --- End quote --- Over 20 years ago, there was an unofficial extension to USB to provide up to 144W. It was implemented as a separate part of the connector so none of the problems with changing voltages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PoweredUSB |
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