Author Topic: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts  (Read 1161566 times)

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Offline gnif

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #150 on: March 27, 2013, 05:55:43 pm »
Well right now I have no idea how to actually test the K10, nor to see what hardware is enabled/disabled, as GPU-Z has a lot of missing information. What resistor values would I need for a GTX 680?

Why would you want to turn a < 680 into a 680, it will not unlock any features, nor make it faster. It would be like sticking a ferrari badge on your bike.
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Offline amigo

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #151 on: March 27, 2013, 06:02:09 pm »
....It would be like sticking a ferrari badge on your bike.
Myself and those of us who used to put fancy car badges on our bicycles resent that analogy. :)
 

Offline eos

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #152 on: March 27, 2013, 07:17:54 pm »
K20x is PCI-E 2.0 x16.  I've got one here.  Last minute change by nVidia.
Fixed.

Can you check Vendor ID and DeviceID?
May I ask what you paid for it?
 

Offline ErikTande

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #153 on: March 27, 2013, 07:28:41 pm »
If I understand this right, I should be able to turn my GeForce GTX 660 Ti into a Quadro K5000.   Here's a picture of my exact card:

http://www.eriktande.com/nvidia_geforce_gtx_660_ti.jpg

Can anyone point out what exactly needs to be changed?   I'm going to try take it to a local shop and have them give it a shot, but I need to know exactly what to tell them.

 >:D
 

Offline eos

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #154 on: March 27, 2013, 07:46:17 pm »
Can anyone point out what exactly needs to be changed?
This is the million dollar question: nobody knows (yet).

At this point only two cards (and their PCB clones) have this question answered. Everything else is guesses at best.

See the posts by gnif and verybigbadboy.
 

Offline ErikTande

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #155 on: March 27, 2013, 07:53:13 pm »
Can anyone point out what exactly needs to be changed?
This is the million dollar question: nobody knows (yet).

At this point only two cards (and their PCB clones) have this question answered. Everything else is guesses at best.

See the posts by gnif and verybigbadboy.

Ah ok, got it.    Is the only way to know by testing it out?   Cuz I'm willing to sacrifice my card.  :-+
 

Offline eos

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #156 on: March 27, 2013, 07:58:52 pm »
Is the only way to know by testing it out?
Yes, but at this point the resistors to be modded (aka in charge of the Device ID) on this board haven't been identified yet.

If you are ready to lose the card, send it to gnif (ask him first).

 

Offline amyk

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #157 on: March 27, 2013, 08:43:26 pm »
If I understand this right, I should be able to turn my GeForce GTX 660 Ti into a Quadro K5000.   Here's a picture of my exact card:

http://www.eriktande.com/nvidia_geforce_gtx_660_ti.jpg

Can anyone point out what exactly needs to be changed?   I'm going to try take it to a local shop and have them give it a shot, but I need to know exactly what to tell them.

 >:D
Look to the right of the top right heatsink mounting hole. Same pattern there. That would be my guess.
 

Offline Mawson

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #158 on: March 27, 2013, 09:22:21 pm »
I've never been shy of doing hardware mods as easy as changing out resistors. Anyways, I just turned my EVGA GTX 670 FTW into a K10... I simply removed resistor 2 as per verbigbadboy. Will post back in a bit on the question of whether or not those cores got enabled. I still need a K10 BIOS, so if anyone with access to a real K10, it would be a huge help if you could share that, as I highly doubt I will find it on the internet...

Edit: used GPU-Z



Yeah ~~
I can only find K5000's Bios....is this one correct?
http://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/129867/NVIDIA.QuadroK5000.4096.120817.html
then use NVFlash to flash the bios into the card?

I still working on finding K10...

You are much better off getting your original BIOS and using a hex editor to update its device ID, then use the KGB voltage mod tool to fix the checksum, don't bother with the voltage mod stuff. I highly doubt that the BIOS controls the number of cores available, this will either be another hardware strap, or burnt out fuses in the GPU.

Hi guys, first post here! :)

I was interested in the possibility of unlocking the 670 as well, but  some research on OCN has lead me no believe that the chips are laser cut during production, making it impossible.

On another note, since I am quite interested in having a 680 with a short pcb, how challenging would it be to swap out the chip from a full 680 with one from a 670? And more importantly, would the end product function?
 

Offline amigo

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #159 on: March 27, 2013, 09:37:24 pm »
On another note, since I am quite interested in having a 680 with a short pcb, how challenging would it be to swap out the chip from a full 680 with one from a 670? And more importantly, would the end product function?
Hah, that would be an ultimate hack. You need to source the chip out first then remove the original GPU, clean the pads, reball the new chip and then mount it. All in the full  BGA glory. Perhaps if you have access to the chip and the BGA equipment it is theoretically doable. But then there might be other resistors to adjust as well, flash the ROM, etc.
 

Offline gnif

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #160 on: March 27, 2013, 09:55:42 pm »
I was interested in the possibility of unlocking the 670 as well, but  some research on OCN has lead me no believe that the chips are laser cut during production, making it impossible.

Not true, a GK104 is a GK104 is a GK104, the card (or pure speculation, maybe fuses in the silicon) configures its identification and capabilities. These idiots that keep saying that this mod is 'luck of the draw' if it works or not don't understand the technology as well as they think they do. The only confirmed difference between chips is the speed binning, which is not what this mod changes.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 09:59:26 pm by gnif »
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Offline InitialDriveGTR

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #161 on: March 27, 2013, 10:15:40 pm »
Well it wont hurt to try. The way I see it is if NVidia got the silicon manufacturing process down to the point where defective units were not common enough to keep up with the demand for 670's, they may have used units that pass the qualifications for a 680 on the 670 boards. I work for a equipment design group and most of the assembly lines we make have a unit production output of about 1 unit every 8 1/2 seconds, with a failure rate of about 1 unit for every ~6000 units (and every unit is tested for quality control). Some of the lines we have made are designed to change product features on the fly, usually producing enough of one product to fill our retail demand for the next quarter, then changing the settings for a version with more/less features. I can't say what this product is, but I assure you many of you have one, and frankly I'd be screwed if I told you that you can upgrade to the better device with a firmware flash and a couple pins on the CPU tied low.

But point is, I want to see if all nvidia did was just disable stuff with this method for the GPU's that are 680 spec, but intended for 670 boards.
 

Offline bdx

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #162 on: March 27, 2013, 11:25:53 pm »
Could someone clarify the difference between the resistor = "symbol" concept, and what has been described by vbbb, below where he removes two resistors to get a symbol?
 
And here is my question:
Making the 4th symbol an F means 40K resistor (in place of the 10k, a "9" symbol)
But based on the quoted text, that is the same as no resistor, aka see what the 3rd has to say.

Do I over analyse it?

Any comments would be appreciated.

I just removed 2 and 3 to get F symbol.

you may also remove them, or you may try to put 40k  "in place of the 10k, a "9" symbol"
I think there is no difference.

Looks like "F" is default value for 4 symbol.
and "B" is default  value for 3 symbol.

I have a GTX 660 Ti that I would be willing to submit as a guinea pig.   Is this something that gnif or someone else could walk me through over skype?

*edit* nevermind, it looks a little too involved for me to handle.  I would need to send the card to someone else.

If someone with the abilty to attempt this wants a card, send me a PM.   I'll ship a 660 Ti as long as you ship it back  :-+

You edited your message while I was preparing an image for you...

If you have a steady hand and decent tools to move the resistors, here's where I think the resistors are on the 660 Ti (of course I could be terribly wrong :) )

Left: Quadro K5000, right: GTX 660 Ti


Based on what I can gather from your photos of the Quadro, whats been discussed on this thread, and the measurements of resistances I've taken on the EVGA GTX 660 ti, I have a feeling the device ID is measured by how much current gets through the circuit i.e. the magnitude of Req. Something like DEVICE ID = i = V/Req, where Req = R1+R2+R3+R4+...+Rn...

Here is a list of resistor magnitudes from the 660 ti mapped according to my drawings below (hopefully this will be of some use)....
R1 = 40k
R2 = 20k
R3 = 5k
R4 = 5k
R5 = 45k
R6 = 33 ohms
R7 = 33 ohms
R8 = 2k
R9 = 2k
R10 = 45k
R11 = 10k
R12 = 10k

« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 11:30:39 pm by bdx »
 

Offline vacaloca

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #163 on: March 27, 2013, 11:38:59 pm »
K20x is PCI-E 2.0 x16.  I've got one here.  Last minute change by nVidia.

I would imagine the k10 and k20 are as well.

Hoping to turn some Titans into K20x
The K20 is PCI-E 2.0 x16, had one until I got a Titan instead, didn't really need the extra enterprise features for my purposes.

I don't want to mess with my Titan at the moment though... my soldering skills aren't that great, anyway. I could probably have one of my friends give it to a soldering tech at his company to do the work though, lol.

I'm seeing if I can get a 660 Ti relatively cheap (~$200) to convert to a K10 or K5000 in the short term, though. If I do get one, I'd be willing to make it a guinea pig -- Edit: Judging by the mapping that was just posted above, it might be figured out very quickly!
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 11:43:27 pm by vacaloca »
 

Offline gnif

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #164 on: March 27, 2013, 11:40:02 pm »
Could someone clarify the difference between the resistor = "symbol" concept, and what has been described by vbbb, below where he removes two resistors to get a symbol?

The terminology he used is incorrect. You are adjusting the two value of the last byte in the device ID, so each resistor represents one nibble in the device ID. See the original post.

How did you measure these resistors, in circuit or did you remove them?

Edit: According to the values provided, R2 or R3 could be for the first nibble as they are 5K which matches up with '8'. For values lower then 8 we do not know, they have not been mapped, but if the 5k per value is consistent when pulling low I would expect it to be a 20-25K, which R2 seems to fit the bill.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 11:50:20 pm by gnif »
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Offline coffeegeek

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts AKA GnifMod
« Reply #165 on: March 28, 2013, 12:01:16 am »
Hi all,

Isn't it about time this mod get's a name? In honor of it's author, I propose "GnifMod" or "ModiGnified".

Any other ideas?
 

Offline bdx

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #166 on: March 28, 2013, 12:20:13 am »
I took measurements with the resistors in series on the card. I know this is frowned upon, but my measured values match those of the resistors when they are detached from the board, I assume it to be an accurate form of measurement. Would you concur?
 

Offline gnif

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #167 on: March 28, 2013, 12:21:56 am »
I took measurements with the resistors in series on the card. I know this is frowned upon, but my measured values match those of the resistors when they are detached from the board, I assume it to be an accurate form of measurement. Would you concur?

Better then nothing but your measurement can be skewed by surrounding components (ie, the GPU).
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Offline eos

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #168 on: March 28, 2013, 12:25:39 am »
R1 = 40k
R2 = 20k
R3 = 5k
R4 = 5k
R5 = 45k
R6 = 33 ohms
R7 = 33 ohms
R8 = 2k
R9 = 2k
R10 = 45k
R11 = 10k
R12 = 10k
Based on those numbers, the R1, R2 and R3 could be playing the roles of 3,2,1 resistors in vbbb's post here
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg207550/#msg207550

R1 is 40K, meaning R2 is setting the 4th symbol: 20K - 3 (but could be B).
R3 defines the 3rd symbol: 5K - 8 (but could be 0).

So, the ID is 83 (if you have a good reason to exclude 03, 8B and 0B).
Exactly what 660Ti is - 1183.

Just a guess!
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 12:31:02 am by eos »
 

Offline gnif

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #169 on: March 28, 2013, 12:31:17 am »
It does not make sense to me that there is a third resistor involved, I do not understand why it is thought that removing the 40K resistor you mentioned is also required. The hard straps will not change in their scheme across the entire GK104 series.
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Offline eos

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts AKA GnifMod
« Reply #170 on: March 28, 2013, 12:36:01 am »
Isn't it about time this mod get's a name? In honor of it's author, I propose "GnifMod" or "ModiGnified".

Any other ideas?
How about cGNIFit, aka significant...
 

Offline reefjunkie

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #171 on: March 28, 2013, 01:25:07 am »
Hi-
 I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on TWO 4GB GTX 680 (Gigabyte GV-N680OC-4GD) cards and will be Modding them to a K5000 & K10.
I run 1/2 the time gaming and normal programs and 1/2 the time CAD and graphic programs. From the benchmarks I have seen ( http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/nvidia-quadro-k5000_8.html#sect0 ) a K5000 is 3 - 4 times as fast as a 2GB GTX 680 running CAD programs and a 2GB GTX 680 is about 1.5 times as fast as a  K5000 running games.
So, what do I  do...
1.) SLI the GTX 680's together. It will be great for games but so-so for CAD.
2.) Mod both cards to a K5000 & K10 (or two K5000's). this will be blazing for CAD and rendering but, so-so for games.
-OR-
3.) Build "daughter cards" for each and be able to switch the resistors from 680 to K5000 & K10. Also, should I dual boot Win 7 and put the GTX 680 drivers and gaming programs on one boot. And put the Quadro drivers and CAD on the other boot.  :-//

If the "daughter cards" work, could I just put both GTX 680 & Quadro drivers on the same boot partition & Win 7 will know which ones to use depending what I have the cards set to?

Thanks.

 

Offline gnif

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #172 on: March 28, 2013, 01:52:52 am »
Hi-
 I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on TWO 4GB GTX 680 (Gigabyte GV-N680OC-4GD) cards and will be Modding them to a K5000 & K10.
I run 1/2 the time gaming and normal programs and 1/2 the time CAD and graphic programs. From the benchmarks I have seen ( http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/nvidia-quadro-k5000_8.html#sect0 ) a K5000 is 3 - 4 times as fast as a 2GB GTX 680 running CAD programs and a 2GB GTX 680 is about 1.5 times as fast as a  K5000 running games.
So, what do I  do...
1.) SLI the GTX 680's together. It will be great for games but so-so for CAD.
2.) Mod both cards to a K5000 & K10 (or two K5000's). this will be blazing for CAD and rendering but, so-so for games.
-OR-
3.) Build "daughter cards" for each and be able to switch the resistors from 680 to K5000 & K10. Also, should I dual boot Win 7 and put the GTX 680 drivers and gaming programs on one boot. And put the Quadro drivers and CAD on the other boot.  :-//

If the "daughter cards" work, could I just put both GTX 680 & Quadro drivers on the same boot partition & Win 7 will know which ones to use depending what I have the cards set to?

Thanks.

Personally I would go for two K5000s. The benchmarks that show that the K5000 is slower for games is only because the real K5000 is clocked slower then the GTX680, so by keeping them both K5000 in SLI you will get the best of both worlds. Both cards use the same driver, there is no 'quadro' driver anymore.
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Offline natiss88

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #173 on: March 28, 2013, 08:16:39 am »
gnif, just an advise..

i think that you should put all "successful mod guides" in first page.
just to make some order and clean things up.

 

Offline amyk

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #174 on: March 28, 2013, 11:05:47 am »
I don't know if this has been mentioned before but would x-raying help to nondestructively identify which balls the ID straps are connected to?
 


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