Author Topic: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts  (Read 1161830 times)

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Offline snakema

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #325 on: May 15, 2013, 10:28:23 am »
hello
after a google search I found the forum and I appreciated this article.
if anyone can help me find the right card for the edit.
thank you
 

Offline lightsol

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #326 on: May 15, 2013, 05:39:36 pm »
hello
after a google search I found the forum and I appreciated this article.
if anyone can help me find the right card for the edit.
thank you

Grab the 680, that card has been modded the most so far :).
 

Offline snakema

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #327 on: May 16, 2013, 08:24:56 am »
hello
after a google search I found the forum and I appreciated this article.
if anyone can help me find the right card for the edit.
thank you

Grab the 680, that card has been modded the most so far :).



is that it will be a real Quadro K5000?
performance, quality ...
 

Offline amigo

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #328 on: May 16, 2013, 11:35:23 pm »
is that it will be a real Quadro K5000?
performance, quality ...

It will not be a real K5000 in performance and quality, but it should allow certain options not available to gaming (GTX) series of cards, useful for virtualization etc.
 

Offline snakema

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #329 on: May 17, 2013, 07:59:17 am »
is that it will be a real Quadro K5000?
performance, quality ...

It will not be a real K5000 in performance and quality, but it should allow certain options not available to gaming (GTX) series of cards, useful for virtualization etc.


you can talk to me options unlocked?
I want to know if I was interested or not.
thanks
 

Offline gordan

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #330 on: May 17, 2013, 05:59:30 pm »
hello
after a google search I found the forum and I appreciated this article.
if anyone can help me find the right card for the edit.
thank you

Grab the 680, that card has been modded the most so far :).



is that it will be a real Quadro K5000?
performance, quality ...

As far as I am aware, the only feature you won't get is the ECC memory. Everything else will be the same, except maybe the clock speeds. Quadro cards tend to be clocked a little more conservatively. GeForce cards tend to be pre-overclocked right to their thermal and stability limits, and occasionally beyond.
 

Offline eos

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #331 on: May 17, 2013, 06:40:48 pm »
As far as I am aware, the only feature you won't get is the ECC memory...
Nobody (so far) has demonstrated that a modded 670/680 card can score the same as Quadro/Tesla/Grid in specviewperf11.
And that is the single most important reason why the pro cards are 3-4 times the $$$ of the GTXs...
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 06:42:37 pm by eos »
 

Offline amigo

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #332 on: May 18, 2013, 01:13:12 am »
Nobody (so far) has demonstrated that a modded 670/680 card can score the same as Quadro/Tesla/Grid in specviewperf11.
And that is the single most important reason why the pro cards are 3-4 times the $$$ of the GTXs...

You are absolutely right, and nobody will demonstrate it, because the cards will not score the same.

Many people fail to realize that Nvidia is also reading the Web and following what is going on with all these mods. They did not sit idly for the 4xx to 5xx transition where the soft-switch mod stopped working. And with the 6xx series they've most likely added more roadblocks to prevent any entrepreneurial people from causing them any further revenue loss.

Doing this for them is very easy, after all they are the ones who engineered the chips and so they have all the information needed. We are for the most part tapping in the dark, finding things out through trial and error.

I'd love to be proven wrong but as it stands, the facts point otherwise.
 

Offline seneelya

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #333 on: May 18, 2013, 10:08:49 am »
so one block have been successfully passed  - that was hardware straps and driver instalation. I think  one more left. It must be somewhere  in BIOS, perhaps OGL features report. May be we need to check it between origonal quadro and moded? Is there some difference present or not?
 

Offline seneelya

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #334 on: May 18, 2013, 10:25:44 am »
here is my AIDA64 report for quadro4000

may be it can somehow help if we compare features
 

Offline gamezr2ez

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #335 on: May 18, 2013, 10:27:50 am »
As far as I am aware, the only feature you won't get is the ECC memory. Everything else will be the same, except maybe the clock speeds. Quadro cards tend to be clocked a little more conservatively. GeForce cards tend to be pre-overclocked right to their thermal and stability limits, and occasionally beyond.

In fact, nothing changes. You get no performance benefit. You get no additional features save the added features provided by the driver itself. According to lspci no additional features were reported as available. According to nvidia-smi no additional features could be accessed.

The card is not faster or slower than the card it originally was.

The only reason to mod this is if you need to use the professional drivers for some reason.

This has all been covered multiple times (including the original post...).

Many people fail to realize that Nvidia is also reading the Web and following what is going on with all these mods. They did not sit idly for the 4xx to 5xx transition where the soft-switch mod stopped working. And with the 6xx series they've most likely added more roadblocks to prevent any entrepreneurial people from causing them any further revenue loss.

Doing this for them is very easy, after all they are the ones who engineered the chips and so they have all the information needed. We are for the most part tapping in the dark, finding things out through trial and error.

I do not have a Tesla K10 or a Grid K2 to compare, but in this case I do believe physical hardware bits are missing allowing some of these features. I would love to have one to examine for a day or two just to look it over.

Then again these could all just be features locked by the bios. I am not about to got flash a different bios just yet.
 

Offline eos

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #336 on: May 18, 2013, 02:38:52 pm »
You are absolutely right, and nobody will demonstrate it, because the cards will not score the same.
Oka-a-ay...
I'd love to be proven wrong...
So, what is it that you think? It can be done or not?

You can't have it both ways...
 

Offline amigo

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #337 on: May 18, 2013, 03:24:24 pm »
Oka-a-ay...
???

So, what is it that you think? It can be done or not?

You can't have it both ways...
In principle, anything can be done and I do have some ideas to explore, just waiting for a GTX card to arrive in the mail.

I opted to get a GTX 5xx because interwebs say 6xx series appears to be optimized towards gaming and not business applications, and is sub-par in performance to 5xx.
 

Offline gordan

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #338 on: May 20, 2013, 07:38:51 am »
As far as I am aware, the only feature you won't get is the ECC memory...
Nobody (so far) has demonstrated that a modded 670/680 card can score the same as Quadro/Tesla/Grid in specviewperf11.
And that is the single most important reason why the pro cards are 3-4 times the $$$ of the GTXs...

Two points:
1) What software do you use that is particularly well approximated with specviewperf11?
2) How much of a difference are we talking about? 300% difference, roughly equivalent to the difference in the price tag? I doubt it.

I can understand that ECC might be required for some application where reliability and correctness of calculations is paramount (science/research headless number crunching), but in the vast majority of cases it isn't particularly useful. In virtually all cases, people who are interested in a cheap alternative to Quadro cards only want compatibility with their software (e.g. for a driver that handles VGA passthrough without requiring additional hypervisor patches). A few % of performance difference between a GeForce and an equivalent Quadro will make no difference to the vast majority of people. If anything, for most people the GeForce will be faster because it is clocked slightly higher.
 

Offline gordan

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #339 on: May 20, 2013, 07:42:07 am »
Oka-a-ay...
???

So, what is it that you think? It can be done or not?

You can't have it both ways...
In principle, anything can be done and I do have some ideas to explore, just waiting for a GTX card to arrive in the mail.

I opted to get a GTX 5xx because interwebs say 6xx series appears to be optimized towards gaming and not business applications, and is sub-par in performance to 5xx.

How exactly do you figure the use case in which 1536 shaders is not at least as good as 512 shaders? I'm pretty sure a GTX680 will outperform a GTX580 in every way possible.
 

Offline amigo

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #340 on: May 20, 2013, 01:54:32 pm »
How exactly do you figure the use case in which 1536 shaders is not at least as good as 512 shaders? I'm pretty sure a GTX680 will outperform a GTX580 in every way possible.

Interwebs is your friend...why don't you do a search and find out. Bigger is not always better. ;)
 

Offline gordan

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #341 on: May 20, 2013, 06:42:03 pm »
How exactly do you figure the use case in which 1536 shaders is not at least as good as 512 shaders? I'm pretty sure a GTX680 will outperform a GTX580 in every way possible.

Interwebs is your friend...why don't you do a search and find out. Bigger is not always better. ;)

And I'm asking you to cite a well informed source with scrutinizable empirical evidence. Surely you aren't about to claim that "it must be true because I read it on the internet".
 

Offline lightsol

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #342 on: May 20, 2013, 07:14:03 pm »
How exactly do you figure the use case in which 1536 shaders is not at least as good as 512 shaders? I'm pretty sure a GTX680 will outperform a GTX580 in every way possible.

Interwebs is your friend...why don't you do a search and find out. Bigger is not always better. ;)

And I'm asking you to cite a well informed source with scrutinizable empirical evidence. Surely you aren't about to claim that "it must be true because I read it on the internet".

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/17

or if you dont believe that, then just google some more benches and tests.
Anyways, don't get offtopic please :)
 

Offline amigo

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #343 on: May 20, 2013, 08:09:04 pm »
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/17

or if you dont believe that, then just google some more benches and tests.
Anyways, don't get offtopic please :)

I was going to suggest he does his own homework, as it's not right for any of us to do it for him. :)

There are many benchmarks in which 680 appears faster, but in actuality once you move into a real world and forget synthetic tests, the picture is totally different.

For example Adobe CS applications, Apple Motion and Final Cut Pro, DaVinci Resolve, etc. Then in the 3D land, most content creation packages perform better with older generations of NVidia chips such as 5xx, 4xx etc. They are closer to their equivalent Quadro chips and could potentially be modded to Quadro as well.

With 6xx, NVidia has clearly decided to separate gaming from business applications. They really want you to spend the big bucks on their pro-line (Quadro) for anything "serious" and so modding the 6xx will only take you so far. As I said before, they are not sitting idly either, waiting for modders to make their moves.

What's mind boggling is that it appears both 6xx and Quadro Kxxx chips come from the same factory line and the former are just crippled versions of the later; or those that don't pass QA testing for pro-line. But, we've already discussed that here, in the earlier posts...
 

Offline SeSl

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #344 on: May 21, 2013, 04:06:14 am »
Good day to all!


What's mind boggling is that it appears both 6xx and Quadro Kxxx chips come from the same factory line and the former are just crippled versions of the later; or those that don't pass QA testing for pro-line. But, we've already discussed that here, in the earlier posts...

It's sad, but it seems to be true. Maybe they do chip selection. It is also possible that the ECC is a beacon validity of pro-series.

Anyway, my EVGA 04G-P4-3687-KR GeForce 4GB GTX 680 for mod in a way. A month ago, paid for it on Amazon. Parcels into Russia are long time. If nothing comes out, it will be waste of money and time. Game card I do not need a gift, and for the K5000 will have to pay anyway.The hope was, that collective brainstorm will give a positive result. The hope dies last.
 

Offline seneelya

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #345 on: May 21, 2013, 10:45:54 am »
anybody reads me?

can we compare real quadro and fake one features reports?
 

Offline gamezr2ez

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #346 on: May 21, 2013, 01:24:49 pm »
Small update:

I know most of you are trying to get professional cards out of consumer, I just want a card for passthrough so I could game "on linux". In every test I have run, this GTX680 modded to a Grid K2 runs exactly the same as the GTX680 except with Physx. Physx doesn't work with the "professional" drivers so I forced the consumer drivers to install. They work and run fine and now Physx will say it is enabled, but the card will not do any of the work. It offloads everything to the CPU while still reporting it is working to the program. Its a bit strange and annoying. Going to mod it back to confirm my results and trying a Telsa mod just in case that will support it (probably not).

Nvidia, if you are reading this, I just want virtualization FOR PLAYING GAMES. Seriously, AMD actually worked with the community on this one, why can't you just enable it? It clearly works fine.
 

Offline eos

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #347 on: May 22, 2013, 01:42:17 am »
Two points:
1) What software do you use that is particularly well approximated with specviewperf11?
2) How much of a difference are we talking about? 300% difference, roughly equivalent to the difference in the price tag? I doubt it.
See this post
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg210155/#msg210155
and the xbitlab link within
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/nvidia-quadro-k5000_4.html

The latter lists programs (software) and what specviewperf11 expect in pro-cards vs. gaming GTXs.

Those should answer both your questions...
 

Offline verybigbadboy

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #348 on: May 22, 2013, 09:43:58 am »
Hello all again :)
I have a new palit gtx 650 2gb card and successfully modificated it into grid k1.
Looks like palit have a reference card.
modification steps same asGT 640. BIOS modification needed too.

Picture with resistor places attached.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 10:27:31 am by verybigbadboy »
6'7''
 

Offline vsgan

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #349 on: May 22, 2013, 05:20:17 pm »
Does the card actually work as NVIDIA GRID VGX after modification? e.g. vmware vsphere vgsa?
 


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