Author Topic: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts  (Read 1161929 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline amigo

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 108
  • Professional Wannabe
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #100 on: March 25, 2013, 10:35:00 pm »
yeah...! just registered, only to follow this thread..

second, modding a 680 to a k5000 will be great. i've read verybigbadboy's post, but it's a little bit confusing. i personally don't need k5000 performances, i could go with a k2000 (650) or a k4000 (650 ti).

Welcome aboard.

You can only get K5000, if modded, because K2000 is based on GK107 and not GK104 GPU.

Further more, you will gain access to what I believe are locked-out high-end features of drivers (and/or applications) because your card will physically identify as something else.

If you compare raw specs, K5000 is clocked much lower than GTX 680 and if you choose to flash the BIOS you will probably reduce performance you have now, but perhaps gain more stability. That is one of the selling points of the high-end visualization cards.
 

Offline emoose

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 7
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #101 on: March 25, 2013, 10:37:06 pm »
My 20040005 660Ti's BIOS seems to have code to emulate/disguise/downgrade itself to a 20040001 board internally, possibly to make drivers work properly (although gpu-z still picks up the proper number)

By the way, how do you know that your BIOS is downgrading your card, perhaps you have some pointers to look at?
I'm not 100% about what it's doing, comparing a 670 bios to my 660 Ti's showed that the part of the BIOS where versions/board numbers/SKUs are was almost the same, but lower down in the code there was another reference to the board number which in the 670 BIOS was 20040005 (as expected) but 20040001 on my 660Ti's:



(left is 660Ti, right is 670)

I think the second reference might be used for when the driver asks the card what board it is, although I'm not even sure if the driver actually does this  :-\
Still, I find it strange that it'd use the board number for the normal 660Ti when the BIOS itself is meant for the 20040005 model. Makes me think it might be doing more than just masquerading the board number...
 

Offline natiss88

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 11
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #102 on: March 25, 2013, 10:56:30 pm »

Welcome aboard.

You can only get K5000, if modded, because K2000 is based on GK107 and not GK104 GPU.

Further more, you will gain access to what I believe are locked-out high-end features of drivers (and/or applications) because your card will physically identify as something else.

If you compare raw specs, K5000 is clocked much lower than GTX 680 and if you choose to flash the BIOS you will probably reduce performance you have now, but perhaps gain more stability. That is one of the selling points of the high-end visualization cards.

hi. thankyou for the reply. i know that "raw specs" are worse on quadro, but i need quadro capability. just for CAD, not other features.

now i use a 580 and a quadro 600. so,no 680 atm.
and the 600 is sometimes slow (but i don't have the money to afford a superior card).

would you kindly explain me why gk107 can't be modded.?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 10:59:09 pm by natiss88 »
 

Offline amigo

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 108
  • Professional Wannabe
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #103 on: March 25, 2013, 11:03:51 pm »


Somehow I am not sure those numbers are actually board number/version, looking at other boards that do not have those numbers.

Have you also checked against an older/newer version of the BIOS if those numbers repeat or are different on the same model line?
 

Offline amigo

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 108
  • Professional Wannabe
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #104 on: March 25, 2013, 11:06:06 pm »
would you kindly explain me why gk107 can't be modded.?
GK104 GPU is in the GTX 660ti, 670, 680, 690 models.

GK107 GPU is in the GTX 650.

Can't make one turn chip into another. But, you could buy a GTX 650 and *possibly* mod it to K2000, based on this thread findings. :)
 

Offline emoose

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 7
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #105 on: March 25, 2013, 11:09:57 pm »


Somehow I am not sure those numbers are actually board number/version, looking at other boards that do not have those numbers.

Have you also checked against an older/newer version of the BIOS if those numbers repeat or are different on the same model line?
EVGA doesn't like to release BIOS updates :( Maybe because so many of their cards use so many different boards :palm:
Other 660 Ti's use the 20040001 board number in the header, where it is in


You can see the difference here
Normal 2GB 660Ti: http://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/127242/EVGA.GTX660Ti.2048.120910.html
20040005 3GB 660Ti: http://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/127140/EVGA.GTX660Ti.3072.120806.html
4GB 670: http://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/126722/EVGA.GTX670.4096.120712.html

Edit: theres an extra bit in the header which I forgot to mention, just above

On 3GB 660Ti/670 it's "3GK104 P2004 SKU 0005 VGA BIOS (HWDIAG)"
On 2GB 660Ti it's "3GK104 P2004 SKU 0001 VGA BIOS (HWDIAG)"

Edit2: Just got some NVFLASH output:
Quote
NVIDIA Firmware Update Utility (Version 5.118)

Adapter: GK1xx                (10DE,1183,3842,3663) H:--:NRM B:01,PCI,D:00,F:00

The display may go *BLANK* on and off for up to 10 seconds during access to the
EEPROM depending on your display adapter and output device.

Identifying EEPROM...
EEPROM ID (C8,4012) : GD GD25Q20 2.7-3.6V 2048Kx1S, page
Reading adapter firmware image...
Image Size            : 182272 bytes
Version               : 80.04.4B.00.60
~CRC32                : 8AB5DABA
OEM String            : NVIDIA
Vendor Name           : NVIDIA Corporation
Product Name          : GK104 Board - 20040005
Product Revision      : Chip Rev
Device Name(s)        : GK1xx
Board ID              : E11D
PCI ID                : 10DE-1183
Subsystem ID          : 3842-3663
Hierarchy ID          : Normal Board
Chip SKU              : 300-0
Project               : 2004-0001
CDP                   : N/A
Build Date            : 07/09/12
Modification Date     : 08/06/12
Sign-On Message       : GK104 P2004 SKU 0005 VGA BIOS (HWDIAG)
Guess we can see where that 20040001 is used: Project: 2004-0001
I got a feeling that's in there for more than just NVFLASH output though...
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 11:40:06 pm by emoose »
 

Offline natiss88

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 11
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #106 on: March 25, 2013, 11:29:41 pm »
would you kindly explain me why gk107 can't be modded.?
GK104 GPU is in the GTX 660ti, 670, 680, 690 models.

GK107 GPU is in the GTX 650.

Can't make one turn chip into another. But, you could buy a GTX 650 and *possibly* mod it to K2000, based on this thread findings. :)

yes, i know that... read my first post, page #7. :-)
maybe i have been a little confusing, sorry.

i'm trying to compare 650s to k2000/4000...but it's hard to find decent photos.
plus, being a "mechanic" doesn't help. :-)

if i fail, i could save € and go for a 660ti. it will be a castrated k5000, but "something is better than nothing"..
 

Offline ErikTande

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 5
  • Country: us
  • VFX Artist
    • ErikTande.com
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #107 on: March 26, 2013, 12:31:07 am »
Here's my high rez image of the back of a GeForce GTX 660 Ti:

http://www.eriktande.com/nvidia_geforce_gtx_660_ti.jpg
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 12:36:12 am by ErikTande »
 

Offline amigo

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 108
  • Professional Wannabe
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #108 on: March 26, 2013, 01:08:21 am »
 

Offline pigeond

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #109 on: March 26, 2013, 02:10:18 am »
Hi gnif and all,

I know it's old, but I'm wondering is it possible to do the same for the GTX460?

I have two GV-N460OC-1GI. I'm a Xen-er and I had been through the pain trying to get them to work with VGA passthrough. I ended up taking the easy way and bought some ATI cards instead. Would be nice to make those GTXs useful again.

I could upload some photos of the card if needed.

Thanks!
 

Offline eos

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 28
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #110 on: March 26, 2013, 02:41:40 am »
I managed to find the resistors responsible for PCI Id in the graphics card gtx 680 2gb  GV-N680OC-2GD, Device Id: 10DE 1180
I have its 670 sibling, GV-N670OC-2GD. Based on the pictures (attached), it's the same card (except for the resistors, I guess).
Since I'm interested in the same - vSGA - I'd be willing to try modding it.

Below you can find a list of IDs that I run successfully:
gtx 670, Device Id: 10DE 1189 with 1536 cores.
tesla k10, Device Id: 10DE 118F
quadro k5000, Device Id: 10DE 11BA
vgx grid k2, Device Id: 10DE 11BF
Since the K5000 wasn't stable, I'd go with Tesla K10.
In this case just one - 4th - symbol needs to be changed: from 9 to F.
And that means only the second resistor has to be replaced (both, 9 and F are in the 8-F range covered by the second resistor).

2 resistor is responsible for the 4th, symbol 8-f. Tested values: 10k = 9, 15k = A.
3 resistor is responsible for the 4th, symbol 0-7. It is originally 5k on gtx680.
If you use second resistor, third one has to be removed or be 40k, and vice versa.
And here is my question:
Making the 4th symbol an F means 40K resistor (in place of the 10k, a "9" symbol)
But based on the quoted text, that is the same as no resistor, aka see what the 3rd has to say.

Do I over analyse it?

Any comments would be appreciated.


 

Offline verybigbadboy

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 38
  • Country: ru
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #111 on: March 26, 2013, 06:30:31 am »
And here is my question:
Making the 4th symbol an F means 40K resistor (in place of the 10k, a "9" symbol)
But based on the quoted text, that is the same as no resistor, aka see what the 3rd has to say.

Do I over analyse it?

Any comments would be appreciated.

I just removed 2 and 3 to get F symbol.

you may also remove them, or you may try to put 40k  "in place of the 10k, a "9" symbol"
I think there is no difference.

Looks like "F" is default value for 4 symbol.
and "B" is default  value for 3 symbol.
6'7''
 

Offline nindza

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #112 on: March 26, 2013, 09:26:31 am »
Hi, guys. I'm admiring your work. And since I'm a  complete rookie - what do you think I can do with my gtx 660 2Gb that has a GK106 CPU. Does that mean I can mybe mod it to Quadro K4000, also GK106? Device ID is 10DE-11C0 and Quadro K400 ID is xxxx-11FA. Thanks for your thoughts!
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 09:57:48 am by nindza »
 

Offline natiss88

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 11
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #113 on: March 26, 2013, 10:22:05 am »
Hi, guys. I'm admiring your work. And since I'm a  complete rookie - what do you think I can do with my gtx 660 2Gb that has a GK106 CPU. Does that mean I can mybe mod it to Quadro K4000, also GK106? Device ID is 10DE-11C0 and Quadro K400 ID is xxxx-11FA. Thanks for your thoughts!

yes, maybe..
but quadro k4000 is more like 650Ti boost than 660 (same gk106, but different specs).

you can see : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Nvidia_graphics_processing_units with nvidia card comparison.
it's very well done.

p.s.: i've seen a 660 pcb, but i couldn't find the "resistor pattern" i've seen in gk104 based card, but i'm a rookie as you. maybe it's in the front http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6276/GTX660PCB.jpg right to the red dot (lower left angle of gpu core)
i think that we have to wait if 660ti -> k5000 works well..
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 12:31:54 pm by natiss88 »
 

Offline nindza

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #114 on: March 26, 2013, 11:06:02 am »
Hi, guys. I'm admiring your work. And since I'm a  complete rookie - what do you think I can do with my gtx 660 2Gb that has a GK106 CPU. Does that mean I can mybe mod it to Quadro K4000, also GK106? Device ID is 10DE-11C0 and Quadro K400 ID is xxxx-11FA. Thanks for your thoughts!

yes, maybe..
but quadro k4000 is more like 650Ti boost than 660 (same gk106, but different specs).

you can see : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Nvidia_graphics_processing_units, with nvidia card comparison.
it's very well done.

p.s.: i've seen a 660 pcb, but i couldn't find the "resistor pattern" i've seen in gk104 based card, but i'm a rookie as you. maybe it's in the front http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6276/GTX660PCB.jpg, right to the red dot (lower left angle of gpu core)
i think that we have to wait if 660ti -> k5000 works well..

Tkank you, yes, we should be patient. I can't seem to open your pic link, could you update it please? tnx
 

Offline moisyes

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #115 on: March 26, 2013, 12:05:34 pm »
I would be extremely interested to learn how verybigbadboy was able to convert his 680 into a VGX/GRID K1 (i.e. what to solder, what resistors to use and where to get them, etc).  That would open up a lot of things to the home-virualization crowd.

I'd even give a little funding for some "idiots guide to turning your 680 into a VGX"

Just sayin.........

Both verybigbadboy and me have posted enough information for anyone to mod a card based on the reference designs.

His images referring to locations and values as well as the images I posted of GTX 670 apply to GTX 680 as well, unless you have a different board. But then again you did not specify what brand/model you have?

Surely if you come here you must know where to get SMT components? :)
Would you have a Quadro 2000 image. I own a GTS 450 2GB and I wanto to hardmod it to Quadro. If you help me in it anyway, Tahnk you so much.
 

Offline natiss88

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 11
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #116 on: March 26, 2013, 12:33:37 pm »
Hi, guys. I'm admiring your work. And since I'm a  complete rookie - what do you think I can do with my gtx 660 2Gb that has a GK106 CPU. Does that mean I can mybe mod it to Quadro K4000, also GK106? Device ID is 10DE-11C0 and Quadro K400 ID is xxxx-11FA. Thanks for your thoughts!

yes, maybe..
but quadro k4000 is more like 650Ti boost than 660 (same gk106, but different specs).

you can see : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Nvidia_graphics_processing_units, with nvidia card comparison.
it's very well done.

p.s.: i've seen a 660 pcb, but i couldn't find the "resistor pattern" i've seen in gk104 based card, but i'm a rookie as you. maybe it's in the front http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6276/GTX660PCB.jpg, right to the red dot (lower left angle of gpu core)
i think that we have to wait if 660ti -> k5000 works well..

Tkank you, yes, we should be patient. I can't seem to open your pic link, could you update it please? tnx

link now are ok.
 

Offline amigo

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 108
  • Professional Wannabe
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #117 on: March 26, 2013, 01:14:06 pm »
Would you have a Quadro 2000 image. I own a GTS 450 2GB and I wanto to hardmod it to Quadro. If you help me in it anyway, Tahnk you so much.
Maybe this?
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SoftwareDescription.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&prodTypeId=0&prodSeriesId=3718668&prodNameId=3718669&swEnvOID=4060&swLang=13&mode=2&swItem=wk-104548-1

Although it seems GTS 450 is a GF106 only in OEM, v2 and v3 are GF116...
 

Offline eos

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 28
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #118 on: March 26, 2013, 01:34:52 pm »
I just removed 2 and 3 to get F symbol.

you may also remove them, or you may try to put 40k  "in place of the 10k, a "9" symbol"
I think there is no difference.

Looks like "F" is default value for 4 symbol.
and "B" is default  value for 3 symbol.
Thank you, verybigbadboy.

Will start looking for the soldering iron...:)

 

Offline victorngcm

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 9
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #119 on: March 26, 2013, 02:20:17 pm »
And here is my question:
Making the 4th symbol an F means 40K resistor (in place of the 10k, a "9" symbol)
But based on the quoted text, that is the same as no resistor, aka see what the 3rd has to say.

Do I over analyse it?

Any comments would be appreciated.

I just removed 2 and 3 to get F symbol.

you may also remove them, or you may try to put 40k  "in place of the 10k, a "9" symbol"
I think there is no difference.

Looks like "F" is default value for 4 symbol.
and "B" is default  value for 3 symbol.

Hi,
Thanks for gnif and your  findings.
I would like to build a new work station and I am going to buy 2 GTX 680 and mod one of them to Quadro K5000 and one tesla K10
Before this I would like to confirm the modding as 2 fo them may cost over thousand dollars

For a 680 to K10....ID "1180" to "118F"
There is only one symbol has to be changed and you said only remove resistor 2 and 3 is OK....no change to resistor 1 right?

For a 680 to K5000....ID "1180" to "11BA"
To get the third symbol from "8" to "B"....I need to change the no. 1 resistor to 20K right?
And for the Symbol "0" to A....
Sorry for this one...I don't understand....Forgive my foolishness...Woudl you mind telling me how to do that?

Thanks very much
 

Offline winjet1

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 9
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #120 on: March 26, 2013, 02:29:57 pm »
I would be extremely interested to learn how verybigbadboy was able to convert his 680 into a VGX/GRID K1 (i.e. what to solder, what resistors to use and where to get them, etc).  That would open up a lot of things to the home-virualization crowd.

I'd even give a little funding for some "idiots guide to turning your 680 into a VGX"

Just sayin.........

Both verybigbadboy and me have posted enough information for anyone to mod a card based on the reference designs.

His images referring to locations and values as well as the images I posted of GTX 670 apply to GTX 680 as well, unless you have a different board. But then again you did not specify what brand/model you have?

Surely if you come here you must know where to get SMT components? :)


In being completely truthful, modding a graphics card into a virtualized graphics card is what caught my eye.  Aside from basic knowledge all my mental stock is in IT (which is why I asked very basic questions) :)  I am extremely grateful for the instructions thus far.  I'm sure this thread will attract a lot of IT, VMware, and CAD enthusiasts.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 02:39:09 pm by winjet1 »
 

Offline amigo

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 108
  • Professional Wannabe
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #121 on: March 26, 2013, 02:31:21 pm »
For a 680 to K10....ID "1180" to "118F"
There is only one symbol has to be changed and you said only remove resistor 2 and 3 is OK....no change to resistor 1 right?

For a 680 to K5000....ID "1180" to "11BA"
To get the third symbol from "8" to "B"....I need to change the no. 1 resistor to 20K right?
And for the Symbol "0" to A....

I believe you need to put a 15K for resistor 2.
 

Offline amigo

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 108
  • Professional Wannabe
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #122 on: March 26, 2013, 02:33:22 pm »
In being completely truthful, modding a graphics card into a virtualized graphics card is what caught my eye.  Aside from basic knowledge all my mental stock is in IT (which is why I asked very basic questions) :)  I am extremely grateful for the instructions thus far.  I'm sure this thread will attack a lot of IT, VMware, and CAD enthusiasts.
I just wonder if there will be a backlash from Nvidia if people start selling modded versions of cards.

I don't think they care if a few enthusiasts mod their card or not, but when someone commercializes on it they would probably take notice.
 

Offline winjet1

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 9
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #123 on: March 26, 2013, 02:46:06 pm »
In being completely truthful, modding a graphics card into a virtualized graphics card is what caught my eye.  Aside from basic knowledge all my mental stock is in IT (which is why I asked very basic questions) :)  I am extremely grateful for the instructions thus far.  I'm sure this thread will attack a lot of IT, VMware, and CAD enthusiasts.
I just wonder if there will be a backlash from Nvidia if people start selling modded versions of cards.

I don't think they care if a few enthusiasts mod their card or not, but when someone commercializes on it they would probably take notice.

Seems similar to the situation where cellular companies would lock down the bootloaders of smartphones preventing people from unlocking extra software features and modders created ROMs to unlock them.  It didn't prevent people from buying the high-end phones, and it made people who weren't going to buy, purchase a mid-range phone upgrade due to that fact.

I was never going to to be able to afford a $2k virtualized graphics card.  I didn't plan on buying a $500 card from Nvidia this week either but now they are up at least one high-end card purchase.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 04:29:54 pm by winjet1 »
 

Offline moisyes

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #124 on: March 26, 2013, 05:12:07 pm »
Would you have a Quadro 2000 image. I own a GTS 450 2GB and I wanto to hardmod it to Quadro. If you help me in it anyway, Tahnk you so much.
Maybe this?
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SoftwareDescription.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&prodTypeId=0&prodSeriesId=3718668&prodNameId=3718669&swEnvOID=4060&swLang=13&mode=2&swItem=wk-104548-1
Than you Amigo.

Although it seems GTS 450 is a GF106 only in OEM, v2 and v3 are GF116...
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf