General > General Technical Chat
Health and Safety - Battery Banks - Lithium et al
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robint:
Does anyone share my concern that there is not enough emphasis placed on the safe usage of Lithium batteries - given how much public proliferation there is an DIY hobbyist activity.
Im sure most viewers here will be well aware of the high profile Lion battery fires, burning down houses etc plenty to see on Google and YT.

What is alarming to me is the numerous YT vids of rank amateurs/informed persons who should know better messing around building battery banks on kitchen tables without realising the risks  and the inherently bad practices they are promoting.

Those little batteries look so harmless and inoffensive lying on a bench - dont they.

IMHO the experimenter should be approaching the topic with the same dedicated care you might devote to building an IED land mine. :-DD  Way too OTT you might say - till you see how many silly mistakes are made with accidental short circuits, blowing things up etc - all because of careless hasty quick fix practice (we all do that dont we?)

Its the in built belief that we are dealing with ELVs 12-48vdc so not a shock hazard in the code sense (not always true btw ask a sailor).

But its the hidden potential for large stored energy releases suddenly in bursts of 1000's even 20,000 Amps, causing fire, explosion, Arc Flash - instant damage to unprotected skin and eyes from UV and arc spatter. Think of a stick welder arc x 1000. This is to put the topic into perspective and maybe at the extreme end of what can happen in practice.

Do you need to be aware of the risks?

Why do you build Battery banks, wiring, exposed live parts etc and messing with them so blatantly? Would you do the same thing if these part were live at 240v or higher? 
See what I mean guys?

IMHO as a responsible forum we should develop a sticky on Safe Practice for Lithium Battery Banks here - cos I haven't seen one anywhere else



tom66:
There's an entire Facebook group of people whose DIY PowerWalls have gone a bit firey.  I personally would only put a DIY battery at least 3m away from my home and on a structure that would not be devastating if it was destroyed (like a garden shed).  I would definitely NEVER have such equipment in or on my house.

I have noticed that 18650 batteries from bare cell providers like Samsung and Panasonic are now printed with disclaimers, for instance:
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fbattery-warning-labels-v0-jeeer1xcjhtb1.png%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3De89e3cccfc651251c2539bc91e113faa766de409

And they are running campaigns to discourage their usage by non-professionals...
https://www.prba.org/press-releases/battery-industry-begins-public-safety-campaign-against-misuse-of-li-ion-cells-in-e-cigarettes-6396/

Though most of these campaigns refer to e-cigs as the most common source of hazard, I am sure they are aware of  the home powerwall guys.
SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: robint on November 06, 2023, 01:13:50 pm ---Does anyone share my concern that there is not enough emphasis placed on the safe usage of Lithium batteries - given how much public proliferation there is an DIY hobbyist activity.
--- End quote ---

Yes. I'm personally not all for babysitting adults too much, but I'm all for informing them properly.


--- Quote from: robint on November 06, 2023, 01:13:50 pm ---Im sure most viewers here will be well aware of the high profile Lion battery fires, burning down houses etc plenty to see on Google and YT.

--- End quote ---

While most are probably well aware, I think (judging from a lot of posts) that many of them downplay the risks a lot, sometimes to the point of not even being convinced there is any risk at all.
While admittedly the actual risks are pretty low with *well-designed* batteries, even if you abuse them, not-so-well designed batteries are just everywhere, and the risks with these is pretty real. Especially for larger capacities.
Squarewave:

--- Quote from: robint on November 06, 2023, 01:13:50 pm ---
Why do you build Battery banks, wiring, exposed live parts etc and messing with them so blatantly? Would you do the same thing if these part were live at 240v or higher? 
See what I mean guys?


--- End quote ---

Yes and do so frequently.
robint:
What you do alone in the privacy of your shed is your funeral.

Would you let your kids loose to play around with these batteries.  Would you make smart ass vids on YT "look and me see what I have done"
You dont see many vids - I hope - encouraging numpties to mess with live mains electrics?
So why dont we treat Lithium batteries with the same respect - they can burn your house down as per  Escooter vids left on charge over night etc, Cheapo Vapers,  :box:
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