General > General Technical Chat
heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
tom66:
Not quite sure how this got to COVID, but the thing about the vaccines is that they prevent transmission by turning someone who'd have a fairly significant (but survivable) case into someone who has an asymptomatic or mild case. There is limited evidence for asymptomatic transmission of COVID (if you want to talk about bonkers policy, try testing asymptomatic people) and the more "severe" the case the more viral load shed, which is why COVID doctors were particularly at risk of dying despite being healthy people, lots of viral load overloading their immune system. If you do develop a serious case, vaccines won't stop you transmitting the virus, but by effectively reducing the number of serious cases, they do reduce transmission.
And you can see this in the data for the UK and other European countries, when vaccines were rapidly rolled out, cases and deaths fell like a rock, and that remains to this day despite all socialisation rules being removed.
Siwastaja:
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 04, 2023, 08:16:37 am ---And you can see this in the data for the UK and other European countries, when vaccines were rapidly rolled out, cases and deaths fell like a rock, and that remains to this day despite all socialisation rules being removed.
--- End quote ---
Are you serious and do you ever fact-check yourself? I mean, this is extremely easy thing to check. I recommend you do that now, just open up the statistics (worldometer, your government's own, whatever, they all show approximately the same).
Siwastaja:
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on August 04, 2023, 09:12:25 am ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 04, 2023, 08:16:37 am ---And you can see this in the data for the UK and other European countries, when vaccines were rapidly rolled out, cases and deaths fell like a rock, and that remains to this day despite all socialisation rules being removed.
--- End quote ---
Are you serious and do you ever fact-check yourself? I mean, this is extremely easy thing to check. I recommend you do that now, just open up the statistics (worldometer, your government's own, whatever, they all show approximately the same).
--- End quote ---
This is Finland for example, I marked approximately when majority of population got their 1st and 2nd jabs. Specifically the delay from 2nd jab to the death toll increase seems totally in line with mainstream scientific research, see for example Christian Holm Hansen et all, Vaccine effectiveness against SARS-CoV-2 infection with the Omicron or Delta variants following a two-dose or booster BNT162b2 or mRNA-1273 vaccination series: A Danish cohort study.
But I'm sure you prefer publications from political organizations and experts hired by governments instead of independent, peer-reviewed scientific research. The uneffectiveness of COVID 19 vaccines especially against the Omicron variant isn't even debated, questioning this and claiming they are effective for longer than 2-3 months is similar to claiming Earth is flat or there is no man-made climate change. Why this selective trust in science? Or you take the stance whichever allows more totalitarian practices, if yes, why?
tom66:
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on August 04, 2023, 09:12:25 am ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 04, 2023, 08:16:37 am ---And you can see this in the data for the UK and other European countries, when vaccines were rapidly rolled out, cases and deaths fell like a rock, and that remains to this day despite all socialisation rules being removed.
--- End quote ---
Are you serious and do you ever fact-check yourself? I mean, this is extremely easy thing to check. I recommend you do that now, just open up the statistics (worldometer, your government's own, whatever, they all show approximately the same).
--- End quote ---
Yes I'm absolutely serious There is no doubt that the vaccines have a significant reduction in mortality rate (the exception is that the AZ and J&J vaccines are no where near as effective, though they still conferred some benefit).
This can be seen in UK data.
Look at the deaths following the vaccination programme which reached everyone following June 2021. That's right when you'd expect another wave... yet it didn't come.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths?areaType=nation&areaName=England
Vaccination data (bottom chart showing cumulative count):
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations?areaType=nation&areaName=England
about 50 million doses had been given by that point which was every vulnerable person having 1st + 2nd jab and many starting their 1st jab. From early 2022 onwards no COVID restrictions applied any more. The vaccine stopped the virus.
nctnico:
--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on August 04, 2023, 01:25:15 am ---
--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 02, 2023, 10:16:00 am ---And we saw how the unwillingness to do that during and now after covid, not only caused them to fail epicly, but it destoryed almost all of the communities respect in science (and politics, if there was any respect there to begin with).
I see this same thing happening again with climate science and climate politics.
--- End quote ---
Science failed during and "after" covid? Didn't we manage to come up with multiple vaccines in record time? Didn't we discuss and learn about virus infection in schools, at home, on the net, whatever, like we had never done before? How can science have failed when we exactly improved our knowledge about (and techniques to deal with) the issue at hand? I don't get it.
--- End quote ---
Agreed. Science saved our asses big time (just like it did in the past by eradicating other highly infectious diseases like polio and measles). It is just that foreign entities saw a big opportunity to spread false information and did so. To the extend that many now distrust the very people that work hard to keep them safe.
One of the primary failures is to selectively shop in research papers. Better follow the advice given by instutes that exist to supply governments with information.
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