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heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
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mendip_discovery:
I am working my way through this thread. This is one of those topics that is hard to discuss as there are lunatics at each end making it hard to have conversations about things without it turning into a shouting match.

I am curious about some of the headline temperatures for example recent UK hotspots have not been the traditional places where the weather was recorded its been some random Airport in the UK. Where before the highest temp recorded etc was from a select few places (37 ish). I suspect this was because of the way weather data was recorded, it had to be a trustworthy person and location.

Have the historical temperatures been correct to follow the new definitions of the SI units?
With the historical data, how much can we trust its accuracy? Was there any traceability or testing done on the thermometers, how accurately was the reading taken and did they actually do it or was it another one of those jobs to be done that sometimes people just made up.
Modern methods of measurement are digitally done and recorded every second/30 seconds therefore able to catch the peaks better than the old glass thermometer.
How has the microclimate near the recording stations changed over the years? Lots more buildings, more tarmac, fewer trees and intensive farming all have effects.

There are many other things that we just put trust into the scientists to do their job well but not all do. I really dislike the terminology that keeps getting banded about with emergency/crisis as it doesn't help the conversation. I remember a few years back a reporter visited a group of protesters and asked them about the information behind what was written on the banners and on the leaflets they handed out, very few had any knowledge of the information but they were willing to hand out leaflets and shout at people.

I get tired of it all, the BBC News is pushing out a story about climate this and that every few days and eventually I know I will just switch off from it all. I have never flown in an aeroplane, I holiday near home, I try to do my part to avoid making a massive dent in the environment...meanwhile, the wealthy[1] people of the world do WTF they want as they can afford to.

btw the UK Weather people have got temperature records going back some 170 years and the data is there to look at if you want at https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/historic-station-data

[1]Not all but enough for me to hold most of them to account for it.
PlainName:

--- Quote from: Dr. Frank on August 04, 2023, 02:44:03 pm ---It's a three step process, in brief:
1) Observe the phenomenon, i.e. make precise measurements on the observable parameters
2) Guess a theory, best in form of closed equations, which combines the parameters from 1), and try to identify possible correlations amongst them.
As Weather and Climate are like Thermodynamics non-deterministic, you have to use statistical methods and numerical simulation instead.
Both methods have to describe exactly the known, historic data. The theory will allow extrapolation in e.g. geometrical or timely manner.
Usually there are several different theories, either contradicting each other (which is good), or giving different predictions.
3) The theories/simulations have to be validated, again by experimental methods, by checking their predictions

The theories, which fail versus experiment, are definitely false.
Those which agree with experiment are "not wrong" only.

--- End quote ---

Doesn't work with Y2K problems, which covid was. Scientists could figure out something and make a prediction, and then because people are dying (and/or potentially dying) those predictions are used to mitigate the effects. So the predictions turn on to be wrong because they've been used to manipulate the results and the scientists (and their models) get poo-poo'd.
bsfeechannel:

--- Quote from: Zero999 on August 04, 2023, 07:56:26 am ---Science failled during and after the pandemic. The measures taken were not evidence based. There wasn't any evidence masks, or keeping 2m appart from one another, prevented transmission of respiratory viruses. No one proved closing schools and bussinesses wouldn't do more harm in the long run, than good.  There wasn't any proof of a risk vs benefit for many taking the vaccine, especially those with natural immunity. At best it just delays reinfection for awhile, but the risk of getting sick from reinfection is tiny, quite possibly lower than that of the vaccine.
--- End quote ---

So people expected a miracle but instead what came out of the lab were advancements, setbacks, hunches, guesses, theories but an overall improved understanding of the pandemic, how these viruses spread, infect, debilitate and kill, uh you know, science as usual.


--- Quote ---Such authoritarian policies require a huge burden of proof, which didn't exist.

--- End quote ---

People confusing science with politics is an interesting subject of study by science.
Howardlong:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 03, 2023, 09:52:54 am ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on August 03, 2023, 08:07:32 am ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 01, 2023, 07:22:40 pm ---On my pension and investments I've shifted some towards ESG, but I have to retain some in high-growth or I'll have nothing to retire on.
--- End quote ---
ESG is something set up with the best of intenions, but is bad. Companies will just tick boxes, to gain higher ESG scores, but not have any real impact. They'll engauge in greenwashing and send their employees on stupid diversity courses, which many people here have complained about. It's something I steer clear of.
frightening.
--- End quote ---

It's a corporate virtue signaling con that is already collapsing as was inevitable. It was a clever ploy to link environmentalism to the woke agenda though. If you didn't like ESG because of one of those things then it provided a very convenient mechanism to accuse you of either racism of anti-environmentalism.
Yes, stay away.

--- End quote ---

Furthermore, ESG scoring used as a way to divert attention while nefarious work remains under way.

In the UK, it's turned out that the even financial regulator has been pushing ESG scoring onto the banks. This is in an effort for them to try to show banks have gained some kind of moral legitimacy after the CDO and LIBOR scams, numerous money laundering fines, failing to pass on interest rate rises to savers, and more recently the various debanking scandals.

Using subject access requests, it transpires that at least one bank that we know of so far has been using its ESG dogma to debank customers who've done noting illegal, but because they don't hold the same ESG values that the banks might profess to hold.

Until very recently, I was unaware of B Corp, which is an ESG scoring outfit. It's just another pay-per-view vanity business award scam: to become "certified" companies have to tick various boxes. Note that B Corp is a supplier. They are not a stockholder, customer or an employee, yet they are dictating how a company does business in return for some box ticking.

Meanwhile, the dirty laundry is still dirty.
mendip_discovery:

--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on August 04, 2023, 03:57:52 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on August 04, 2023, 07:56:26 am ---Science failled during and after the pandemic. The measures taken were not evidence based. There wasn't any evidence masks, or keeping 2m appart from one another, prevented transmission of respiratory viruses. No one proved closing schools and bussinesses wouldn't do more harm in the long run, than good.  There wasn't any proof of a risk vs benefit for many taking the vaccine, especially those with natural immunity. At best it just delays reinfection for awhile, but the risk of getting sick from reinfection is tiny, quite possibly lower than that of the vaccine.
--- End quote ---

So people expected a miracle but instead what came out of the lab were advancements, setbacks, hunches, guesses, theories but an overall improved understanding of the pandemic, how these viruses spread, infect, debilitate and kill, uh you know, science as usual.

--- End quote ---

Jeepers (not the actual word I used). This crap again. Something happened that was expected but due to lots of unknowns, it's almost impossible to define a clear system to protect everyone. Then when the turd hit the fan the ones in charge suddenly had people asking them WTF do we do. They in turn looked at the clever people and said what can I tell them otherwise the press will murder me and the public will hate me forever. So the clever people came up with basic simple things that might reduce a repeat of historic events that have happened before all without having a full understanding of the bad thing that was happening. These clever people are used to spending months/years studying stuff and aren't used to giving quick answers with limited data. I often what would have happened if high up did nothing and the world just carried on like normal, who would be held to blame for all the excess deaths.

What I want to know from the pandemic is what steps are being taken to prevent another one, I really am not looking forward to another one of these because the next one might kill me.
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