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heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.

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coppice:

--- Quote from: tom66 on August 04, 2023, 10:02:49 pm ---
--- Quote from: coppice on August 04, 2023, 09:44:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on August 04, 2023, 07:54:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: Wallace Gasiewicz on August 04, 2023, 07:46:34 pm ---We were told repeatedly that the COVID vaccine would stop transmission of the disease.  This was and is an obvious lie and brings into question anything that the medical government complex tells us.

--- End quote ---
No, you misunderstood. Vaccinated people get less sick, produce less 'carriers' and in this way the transmission is reduced (which in the end stops spreading Covid).

--- End quote ---
This only works for a sterilising vaccine. We don't have those for COVID, or for most of the other diseases which transmit from the sinus cavity. There is no evidence of a measurable reduction of transmission with the weakly effective COVID vaccines.

--- End quote ---

I don't know why so many people misunderstand the concept.

Yes, having a vaccine for COVID does not appear to reduce transmissibility of the virus directly when sick.

However if the vaccine means you get less sick and therefore produce less viral load, you will transmit the virus less, when you look across a whole population.  And there is ample evidence for this - both at the population level and in numerous studies on the various vaccines.

--- End quote ---
With COVID, as with many respiratory diseases, you shed from your sinuses. The viral load in your body is irrelevant. The viral load in your nose, and out of reach of the immunity a COVID vaccine can infer, is where the transmission comes from. Where is your evidence to the contrary?

tom66:

--- Quote from: coppice on August 04, 2023, 11:06:23 pm ---With COVID, as with many respiratory diseases, you shed from your sinuses. The viral load in your body is irrelevant. The viral load in your nose, and out of reach of the immunity a COVID vaccine can infer, is where the transmission comes from. Where is your evidence to the contrary?

--- End quote ---

It's really just logic.  The less sick you are, the less you cough, the less you sneeze, the less likely you are to have any symptoms at all.  In the initial studies of the Pfizer vaccine, around 70% of people infected experienced no symptoms at all.  Since asymptomatic spread of COVID is close to being a myth (there is some risk but it's very mild) you can infer the reduction in risk just from a reduction in symptoms.  Viral spread isn't binary too - yes, you can be infected by a few virons, but the more viral load you receive in any given period of time, the more likely you are to experience serious side effects.   Remember the otherwise healthy Chinese doctor, Li Wenliang, who died of COVID trying to break the news of this novel virus?  He and many other healthcare workers suffered the consequences of a lack of appropriate PPE and protocol, they'd normally survive if they had only been exposed to a small dose of the virus but frequent and significant exposure killed them.

Buriedcode:

--- Quote from: coppice on August 04, 2023, 11:06:23 pm ---With COVID, as with many respiratory diseases, you shed from your sinuses. The viral load in your body is irrelevant. The viral load in your nose, and out of reach of the immunity a COVID vaccine can infer, is where the transmission comes from. Where is your evidence to the contrary?

--- End quote ---

Making mask wearing all the more important.

Wallace Gasiewicz:
Quote from: tom66 on Today at 10:02:49 pm>Quote from: coppice on Today at 09:44:05 pm>Quote from: nctnico on Today at 07:54:29 pm>Quote from: Wallace Gasiewicz on Today at 07:46:34 pm
We were told repeatedly that the COVID vaccine would stop transmission of the disease.  This was and is an obvious lie and brings into question anything that the medical government complex tells us.

--- End quote ---
No, you misunderstood. Vaccinated people get less sick, produce less 'carriers' and in this way the transmission is reduced (which in the end stops spreading Covid).
This only works for a sterilising vaccine. We don't have those for COVID, or for most of the other diseases which transmit from the sinus cavity. There is no evidence of a measurable reduction of transmission with the weakly effective COVID vaccines.

I don't know why so many people misunderstand the concept.

Yes, having a vaccine for COVID does not appear to reduce transmissibility of the virus directly when sick.

However if the vaccine means you get less sick and therefore produce less viral load, you will transmit the virus less, when you look across a whole population.  And there is ample evidence for this - both at the population level and in numerous studies on the various vaccines.


NO. 

Some viruses do exhibit this wave phenom. There are explanations, which you may or may not agree with but the viruses do exhibit this behaviour.   This happens without vaccines.

https://health-desk.org/articles/what-are-first-second-and-third-waves-of-infections   

Yes there are "sterilizing vaccines" which can stop transmission. COVID Vaccine is not one of them. 

If the vaccine curtails the illness associated with the disease,  the person infected is unaware they are sick and is more likely to go out and spread it.    There is no evidence that it decreases viral load,If you have a paper on this, a legitimate one, I would like to see it.  Viral load in secretions only has to be high enough to transmit. more is NOT NECESSARILY more infectious. I have not seen any studies on the load necessary to be legitimately infectious.

To return to the CLIMATE CHANGE issue, we were supposed to freeze to death according to experts in the 1970s.  The sea level was supposed to drown Manhattan years ago.   It is hard to take seriously people who are consistently wrong.






EEVblog:

--- Quote from: Wallace Gasiewicz on August 04, 2023, 11:29:43 pm ---I don't know why so many people misunderstand the concept.

--- End quote ---

Because:
a) Our government leaders specifically told us this in no uncertain terms.
b) Our governments implemented mandates for government workers based on this supposed fact.
c) Companies imposed their own mandates with the legal backing of our governments based on this supposed fact.

It was all bullshit. Argue all you want in theory and individual cases, but on the whole it didn't work, this is now admitted by practically all involved. They got it completely wrong. Don't be surprised when now people don't trust the government or our scientifical bodies again.

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