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heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.

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Haenk:
This whole discussion went full-scale being a new religion. Get your head being cut off if you dare to not follow this new religion.

I still stick to the "treat your environment nicely", that's good enough. Nature will adapt, humans will have to adapt as well (and did so since forever, as there is always a change in environmental conditions).

After all, the increasing population is probably the largest issue, which needs to be solved by religious and political leaders. Since the worlds largest religions still require folks to "breed like rabbits", I'm certain, banning wood ovens in Germany *will* save the world 8)

nctnico:

--- Quote from: tom66 on August 04, 2023, 10:02:49 pm ---
--- Quote from: coppice on August 04, 2023, 09:44:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on August 04, 2023, 07:54:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: Wallace Gasiewicz on August 04, 2023, 07:46:34 pm ---We were told repeatedly that the COVID vaccine would stop transmission of the disease.  This was and is an obvious lie and brings into question anything that the medical government complex tells us.

--- End quote ---
No, you misunderstood. Vaccinated people get less sick, produce less 'carriers' and in this way the transmission is reduced (which in the end stops spreading Covid).

--- End quote ---
This only works for a sterilising vaccine. We don't have those for COVID, or for most of the other diseases which transmit from the sinus cavity. There is no evidence of a measurable reduction of transmission with the weakly effective COVID vaccines.

--- End quote ---

I don't know why so many people misunderstand the concept.

--- End quote ---
Likely it is due to the spread of mis-information. Scientifically you can say the vaccines don't stop spreading the virus. This makes some people jump to the conclusion (or just parrotting) that the vaccines are useless. But if vaccines are useless, then we would still have problems with polio and measles which spread the same way as Covid does. But we don't because a significant portion of the population has been vaccinated to achieve herd immunity. And this herd immunity needs to be maintained.

A long time ago I worked for a research institute. One of the first things new employees learned was to be really carefull with how a research question can be used towards steering a wanted outcome. But this steering can not always be fully avoided because in the end the customer needs to get what they ask & pay for. All in all you have to be really carefull with citing individual papers expecially when the initial research question isn't clear from the paper itself. It is very easy to pull a research paper out of context especially if the subject is on a complex matter.

tautech:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 05, 2023, 06:43:51 am ---And then factor in the extreme fear and and control many people, governments, and organisations want to exert on us over climate change, you should be skeptical of alarmist claim on that human nature aspect alone.
--- End quote ---
Yeah that.
Your emphasis removed mine added.

The climate of Fear.

We have been fed a diet to expect weather extremes based on Golbull warming and 2 storms in NZ early this year were attributed to Globull warming and by a NZ Gubbermint dept NIWA called it the worst storm NZ had ever seen......BS I thought and others did too including our premier investigative journalist Ian Wishart, a national treasure.

This Gubbermint dept NIWA and their some 30 odd years of existence claims their core values are:
NIWA’S purpose is to enhance the economic value and sustainable management of New Zealand’s aquatic resources and environments, to provide understanding of climate and the atmosphere and increase resilience to weather and climate hazards to improve safety and wellbeing of New Zealanders.

One would imagine they know what they are on about however recently Ian Wishart proved they don't have a clue and only exist to push an agenda.

He conducted 2 weeks of detailed private research of historical NZ weather events to satisfy us that NIWA's claims were false.....a Gubbermint institution funded by taxpayers !
When it was disclosed the worst storm NZ had seen didn't even make the top 10 of privately researched publically available historical records, NIWA backpedalled to claim instead it was the wettest, again proven to be BS after a further weeks research by a private individual !

So much for publicly funded Gubbermint organizations to provide the real facts on weather....their core business !  :horse:
Attached are the 2 documents prepared on NZ historical weather research by Ian Wishart and while they might be a tedious read, they are the facts and as such are sometimes tough going. Methodology is described as are sources.

Of interest is the 1938 storm seriously affecting the Esk Valley near Napier, the same area badly damaged in the 2023 storm where if reading the 1938 paper clipping outlining the damage one can be forgiven for thinking they had the dates incorrect....didn't the exact same damage occur in 2023, nearly 90 years later !

RAPo:
The real problem is that the scientific community didn't stand up as a whole, didn't post on every social platform, or bombard every newsagency with the message: politics got it wrong this is not how science works. This is not what we are saying.

In doing so they made themselves absolutely unbelievable. In the Netherlands there was an evening clock between 21.00 and 04.30. Nobody from the scientific community said, hey, a virus cannot watch clocks. Why these strange cutoff times? It was (immediately) clear from the hospital admission data that the rule had no effect, but still, politics endured this rule for three months. The scientific community didn't stand up, and didn't go to court to change this.
So why should we trust them?

There is now some concern about ocean warmth. It is presented as a part of climate change.
Again the scientific community as a whole isn't going to the press every day stating: "it might come from the regulations imposed in 2020 by the United Nations’s International Maritime Organization (IMO) to have cut ships’ sulfur pollution by more than 80%.

Sure, we have cleaner air, but also less clouds and more warmth.

As long as nations are not able to maintain a net zero balance on their budgets, I think we all know they won't be able to achieve net zero energy goals.

Howardlong:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 05, 2023, 12:16:50 am ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Frank on August 04, 2023, 02:44:03 pm ---Climate Research is therefore not yet a "complete" science, as the final experimental proof will be available in 30, 50, 100 years from now.

--- End quote ---

I suspect it will never be a complete science. It's just such a complex dynamic system, and our ability to accurately measure stuff on a global scale is limited.

--- End quote ---

Not just dynamic, both climate and weather are chaotic systems.

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