Author Topic: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.  (Read 31444 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #150 on: August 05, 2023, 12:16:50 am »
Climate Research is therefore not yet a "complete" science, as the final experimental proof will be available in 30, 50, 100 years from now.

I suspect it will never be a complete science. It's just such a complex dynamic system, and our ability to accurately measure stuff on a global scale is limited.
Even in the 30, 50, 100 years time, the "proof" may not be available. The result might match a prediction, but having absolute proof your model was right will still be elusive.
They already have not had the best track record in this regard.
 

Offline snarkysparkyTopic starter

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #151 on: August 05, 2023, 03:06:46 am »
Climate Research is therefore not yet a "complete" science, as the final experimental proof will be available in 30, 50, 100 years from now.

I suspect it will never be a complete science. It's just such a complex dynamic system, and our ability to accurately measure stuff on a global scale is limited.
Even in the 30, 50, 100 years time, the "proof" may not be available. The result might match a prediction, but having absolute proof your model was right will still be elusive.
They already have not had the best track record in this regard.

Can you name ONE complete science,  according to your definition?

If incomplete then there is no point ?
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #152 on: August 05, 2023, 06:43:51 am »
Climate Research is therefore not yet a "complete" science, as the final experimental proof will be available in 30, 50, 100 years from now.
I suspect it will never be a complete science. It's just such a complex dynamic system, and our ability to accurately measure stuff on a global scale is limited.
Even in the 30, 50, 100 years time, the "proof" may not be available. The result might match a prediction, but having absolute proof your model was right will still be elusive.
They already have not had the best track record in this regard.
Can you name ONE complete science,  according to your definition?
If incomplete then there is no point ?

The ones that turn into practical engineering, you know, like electronics. Stuff that we've used and reproduce every day for centuries.

You can't compare that with climate science models. You come up with a model, apply it to massively complicated global system we don't fully understand, wait 30 years and then the temperature went in the direction you expected. Hardly proof positive of anything, other than correlation.
And that's even factoring in how many times the models have failed before. Heck, in the 1970's the climate science said we were headed for another ice age!
Rinse and repeat. There are memes going around that show how many times the climate science and predictions have been dead wrong over the decades.
They even trotted out Spock himself to tell us all about it:


Oh, but it's different this time, right?
Sure, maybe, but maybe not. My point is that while we know a lot more about this complicated system than we did then, it's still vastly far from knowing everything. If you think we know it all then that's just sheer hubris.
And then factor in the extreme fear and and control many people, governments, and organisations want to exert on us over climate change, you should be skeptical of alarmist claim on that human nature aspect alone.

Like I said, with covid, BLM/Woke etc, there are always people looking to take control and advantage by way of fear.

Look, no sensible scientific person is going to doubt that C02 is a greenhouse gas and can potentially have an impact in warming the planet. But to upheave society in one gigantic bet that's the prime move and the thing that will stop it does not pass the sniff test. It does however conveniently match the fear and control boogieman test.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 06:56:44 am by EEVblog »
 
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Offline KE5FX

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #153 on: August 05, 2023, 06:55:08 am »
(Shrug) If you demand absolute certainty in life, you don't want science, you want religion. 

That ice-age schtick never had any real support, which is why it was abandoned.  Meanwhile the notion of heat retention due to CO2 and other gases goes back to Arrhenius.  Everything you need to know about the greenhouse effect you (should have) learned in high school chemistry.

I don't have any particular opinions on climate science and I don't trust computer models any more than any other intelligent, technically-literate person should.  I also don't agree that we're facing any sort of doomsday scenario due to warming.  We adapt, that's what humans do.  No animal anywhere has ever been better at adapting to a changing environment. 

But the general concept of accelerated warming due to GHG emissions seems hard to refute.  You can't refute it by saying "B...b...b...but they were wrong before!," that much IS certain.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #154 on: August 05, 2023, 07:02:26 am »
I don't have any particular opinions on climate science and I don't trust computer models any more than any other intelligent, technically-literate person should.  I also don't agree that we're facing any sort of doomsday scenario due to warming.  We adapt, that's what humans do.  No animal anywhere has ever been better at adapting to a changing environment. 

Exactly.

Quote
But the general concept of accelerated warming due to GHG emissions seems hard to refute.  You can't refute it by saying "B...b...b...but they were wrong before!," that much IS certain.

The correlation is there, for sure, but that doesn't mean it's the only driver. And it also doesn't mean it's the only way to drive it back down.
There is every chance that we stop all C02 tomorrow and we still don't stop it.
Sure, reduce C02, very sensible thing to do. But to upheave society over CO2 alone, which includes, let's be frank about it, the potential death of countless millions in developing nations, seems absurd.
You said it yourself, we are very good at adapting, it's what we do. So let's reduce CO2 the best we can without screwing people over, and plan to adapt.

My only objection to the current climate science is the poltics of fear associated with it. Try to install fear in me and you can bugger right off.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 07:07:00 am by EEVblog »
 
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Online Haenk

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #155 on: August 05, 2023, 07:32:43 am »
This whole discussion went full-scale being a new religion. Get your head being cut off if you dare to not follow this new religion.

I still stick to the "treat your environment nicely", that's good enough. Nature will adapt, humans will have to adapt as well (and did so since forever, as there is always a change in environmental conditions).

After all, the increasing population is probably the largest issue, which needs to be solved by religious and political leaders. Since the worlds largest religions still require folks to "breed like rabbits", I'm certain, banning wood ovens in Germany *will* save the world 8)
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #156 on: August 05, 2023, 07:53:32 am »
We were told repeatedly that the COVID vaccine would stop transmission of the disease.  This was and is an obvious lie and brings into question anything that the medical government complex tells us.
No, you misunderstood. Vaccinated people get less sick, produce less 'carriers' and in this way the transmission is reduced (which in the end stops spreading Covid).
This only works for a sterilising vaccine. We don't have those for COVID, or for most of the other diseases which transmit from the sinus cavity. There is no evidence of a measurable reduction of transmission with the weakly effective COVID vaccines.

I don't know why so many people misunderstand the concept.
Likely it is due to the spread of mis-information. Scientifically you can say the vaccines don't stop spreading the virus. This makes some people jump to the conclusion (or just parrotting) that the vaccines are useless. But if vaccines are useless, then we would still have problems with polio and measles which spread the same way as Covid does. But we don't because a significant portion of the population has been vaccinated to achieve herd immunity. And this herd immunity needs to be maintained.

A long time ago I worked for a research institute. One of the first things new employees learned was to be really carefull with how a research question can be used towards steering a wanted outcome. But this steering can not always be fully avoided because in the end the customer needs to get what they ask & pay for. All in all you have to be really carefull with citing individual papers expecially when the initial research question isn't clear from the paper itself. It is very easy to pull a research paper out of context especially if the subject is on a complex matter.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 08:59:50 am by nctnico »
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Online tautech

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #157 on: August 05, 2023, 08:16:45 am »
And then factor in the extreme fear and and control many people, governments, and organisations want to exert on us over climate change, you should be skeptical of alarmist claim on that human nature aspect alone.
Yeah that.
Your emphasis removed mine added.

The climate of Fear.

We have been fed a diet to expect weather extremes based on Golbull warming and 2 storms in NZ early this year were attributed to Globull warming and by a NZ Gubbermint dept NIWA called it the worst storm NZ had ever seen......BS I thought and others did too including our premier investigative journalist Ian Wishart, a national treasure.

This Gubbermint dept NIWA and their some 30 odd years of existence claims their core values are:
NIWA’S purpose is to enhance the economic value and sustainable management of New Zealand’s aquatic resources and environments, to provide understanding of climate and the atmosphere and increase resilience to weather and climate hazards to improve safety and wellbeing of New Zealanders.

One would imagine they know what they are on about however recently Ian Wishart proved they don't have a clue and only exist to push an agenda.

He conducted 2 weeks of detailed private research of historical NZ weather events to satisfy us that NIWA's claims were false.....a Gubbermint institution funded by taxpayers !
When it was disclosed the worst storm NZ had seen didn't even make the top 10 of privately researched publically available historical records, NIWA backpedalled to claim instead it was the wettest, again proven to be BS after a further weeks research by a private individual !

So much for publicly funded Gubbermint organizations to provide the real facts on weather....their core business !  :horse:
Attached are the 2 documents prepared on NZ historical weather research by Ian Wishart and while they might be a tedious read, they are the facts and as such are sometimes tough going. Methodology is described as are sources.

Of interest is the 1938 storm seriously affecting the Esk Valley near Napier, the same area badly damaged in the 2023 storm where if reading the 1938 paper clipping outlining the damage one can be forgiven for thinking they had the dates incorrect....didn't the exact same damage occur in 2023, nearly 90 years later !
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Offline RAPo

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #158 on: August 05, 2023, 08:25:11 am »
The real problem is that the scientific community didn't stand up as a whole, didn't post on every social platform, or bombard every newsagency with the message: politics got it wrong this is not how science works. This is not what we are saying.

In doing so they made themselves absolutely unbelievable. In the Netherlands there was an evening clock between 21.00 and 04.30. Nobody from the scientific community said, hey, a virus cannot watch clocks. Why these strange cutoff times? It was (immediately) clear from the hospital admission data that the rule had no effect, but still, politics endured this rule for three months. The scientific community didn't stand up, and didn't go to court to change this.
So why should we trust them?

There is now some concern about ocean warmth. It is presented as a part of climate change.
Again the scientific community as a whole isn't going to the press every day stating: "it might come from the regulations imposed in 2020 by the United Nations’s International Maritime Organization (IMO) to have cut ships’ sulfur pollution by more than 80%.

Sure, we have cleaner air, but also less clouds and more warmth.

As long as nations are not able to maintain a net zero balance on their budgets, I think we all know they won't be able to achieve net zero energy goals.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 08:33:49 am by RAPo »
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #159 on: August 05, 2023, 08:50:56 am »
Climate Research is therefore not yet a "complete" science, as the final experimental proof will be available in 30, 50, 100 years from now.

I suspect it will never be a complete science. It's just such a complex dynamic system, and our ability to accurately measure stuff on a global scale is limited.

Not just dynamic, both climate and weather are chaotic systems.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #160 on: August 05, 2023, 09:03:15 am »
Quote
In the Netherlands there was an evening clock between 21.00 and 04.30. Nobody from the scientific community said, hey, a virus cannot watch clocks. Why these strange cutoff times?

One of the problems with covid arguments is that solutions must be either 100% effective or 0%, but in reality being just 20% would be an improvement. It just means the risk is different, and if you can reduce risk then why not? Do you stop going shopping at all, or do you not give a toss and live in the supermarket? Surely minimising how often you go is a better solution that either extreme.

Quote
It was (immediately) clear from the hospital admission data that the rule had no effect

It would take at least 2 weeks for any effect to begin to show, so perhaps you might want to define 'immediately' so it's a bit more believable.
 
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Offline welterde

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #161 on: August 05, 2023, 09:19:43 am »
And that's even factoring in how many times the models have failed before. Heck, in the 1970's the climate science said we were headed for another ice age!
Rinse and repeat. There are memes going around that show how many times the climate science and predictions have been dead wrong over the decades.
They even trotted out Spock himself to tell us all about it:

Oh, but it's different this time, right?

Science progresses one mistake at a time.
But to say that the scientific consensus back in the 1970s was there would be global cooling is just not true: literature review article.
There were more papers published about neutral temperatures or warming than cooling.
You have to keep in mind that the media and science are two separate things and science reporting gets things wrong all the time.

Maybe you also remember the leaked internal studies from ExxonMobil from the 1970/1980s: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abk0063, which came to the same conclusion about warming, but were not published for obvious reason. And at least their predictions are not too far off from what we see today.

At this point it is hard to deny that the global temperatures are rising: https://essd.copernicus.org/articles/15/2295/2023/essd-15-2295-2023.pdf (for more up-to-date values: https://berkeleyearth.org/june-2023-temperature-update/).
This is not only seen in the observed temperature, but also from the effective radiative forcing.
All the different forcings are being investigated (https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/02/ar4-wg1-chapter2-1.pdf), so that we are just missing some large forcing that can explain the temperature rise some other way is rather unlikely at this point.
 

Offline AndyBeez

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #162 on: August 05, 2023, 09:32:31 am »
In the west we have a press that is almost hard coded into reporting weather events as evidential proof of, insert quote, "man made climate change". Heatwaves in South East Asia and the Mediterranean, cold weather across Canada, dust storms in Australia, high winds in India and persistent rain in Britain. All evidence that means, insert quote, "we need to cut carbon emissions before it is too late."

It is this 'opinion management' which (mis)leads otherwise sane and rational people to demand our leaders act now. And they will. By manufacturing policy documents, fact finding in the Maldives and inventing bullshit taxes. And the people with the placards blocking our streets will, insert quote, "be worried this is too little too late." And demand, insert quote, "our politicians go a lot further before it is too late."

You might note that climate protesters never protest outside the Chinese or Russian embassies. Foĺlow the money? Just saying as it seems that once principled green groups and human rights organisations have been hijacked by the climate change agendaists.

Me? Climate change denier no. I've been an amateur meteorologist since before school age. Sceptical of climate science influenced by anti Western left wing agenda politics, you bet.

The solution to climate change, habitat protection and species endangerment is responsinle planning and good engineering. But all we have right now is a puppet media, screaming children and bad politicians cashing in on the hysteria.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 09:35:19 am by AndyBeez »
 
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Offline Gyro

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #163 on: August 05, 2023, 09:46:50 am »
Meanwhile, the factual global sea temperature average is exceeding records by a significant margin for this time of year and the El Niño event is barely even be starting before the end of the year. Next year could be a fun one...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66387537


Deniers can argue all they like against climate change, but somebody had better bloody well fix it.  :popcorn:


Edit: From the BBC report:
« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 10:08:26 am by Gyro »
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Online tautech

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #164 on: August 05, 2023, 09:47:20 am »
In the west we have a press that is almost hard coded into reporting weather events as evidential proof of, insert quote, "man made climate change". Heatwaves in South East Asia and the Mediterranean, cold weather across Canada, dust storms in Australia, high winds in India and persistent rain in Britain. All evidence that means, insert quote, "we need to cut carbon emissions before it is too late."
Yet from the Climate of Fear document I linked above:
.........
That creates an overwhelming impression that the weather is getting more extreme – an impression that you will shortly see may not only be wrong, but the reverse: in New Zealand, at least, there’s evidence that we suffered more so-called 1-in-100 year storms/floods in the 1800s (when CO2 was only around 285ppm) than now (413ppm).

While it is just one study it still indicates proper analysis of historical weather analysis can prove storms were more common (here in NZ) when CO2 levels were half of what they are now.
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Offline RAPo

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #165 on: August 05, 2023, 09:55:40 am »
One of the problems with covid arguments is that solutions must be either 100% effective or 0%, but in reality being just 20% would be an improvement. It just means the risk is different, and if you can reduce risk then why not? Do you stop going shopping at all, or do you not give a toss and live in the supermarket? Surely minimising how often you go is a better solution that either extreme.

For ordinary measures I agree. But this measure had no legal basis. In the Netherlands a special (temporary) law had to be created.
In fact we even had two different law adaptions.
The science community did not stand up, a group of civilians did stand up (and  they got the misnomer conspiracy people).
A judge (imho rightly)  declared the measure unlawful because it was done in a too hasty way and had a too great impact on the citizens.
Only in an acute emergency situation such an emergency measure for a very short time can be executed.
The state made an appeal the same day after the judge ruled and, without any proof had the statement it was necessary.
If you grant the political system to add exceptions to rights, what you will get is that they will create exceptions.

It was (immediately) clear from the hospital admission data that the rule had no effect
It would take at least 2 weeks for any effect to begin to show, so perhaps you might want to define 'immediately' so it's a bit more believable.
Nope in Amsterdam there was a test with cameras in order to see how busy the streets were. And guess what: no real difference.
Together with the evening clock a whole range of other measures were taken. You cannot attribute the effect only to this very harsh measure.
In the Netherlands, we had a red team and a the so-called OMT (the official body to give advice to the government) both had their doubts before introducing the measure and they are proved to be right.
 

Offline RAPo

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #166 on: August 05, 2023, 10:37:25 am »
And where are the scientist speaking up now we have concrete data of not warming up/decrease of ice?

When is the science community standing up because we have data that prove that solar panels are increasing CO2 levels?

Where is the scientific community stating to all government officials: it is not true that the world is on fire.

Why aren't universities going to the press every day stating: stop the fear-mongering, read this lancelet article.?

Why are the words from critical scientists (e.g. Freeman Dyson: (regarding IPCC climate models) I just think they don't understand the climate their models are full of fudge factors) not on an equal par in the climate discussions?

Why is the scientific community not explaining to the public that the colouring of the images like those below is based on different temperatures (2019 one day, 2009 average for the upcoming three days)?
Why don't they reduce the fear-mongering?

Answer: they get money out of it.

(and in case you can understand German, the weather news from 2009 is here it is colored orange.

 

Offline Wallace Gasiewicz

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #167 on: August 05, 2023, 11:28:30 am »
Quote from: nctnico on Today at 07:53:32 am>Quote from: tom66 on Yesterday at 10:02:49 pm>Quote from: coppice on Yesterday at 09:44:05 pm>Quote from: nctnico on Yesterday at 07:54:29 pm>Quote from: Wallace Gasiewicz on Yesterday at 07:46:34 pm
We were told repeatedly that the COVID vaccine would stop transmission of the disease.  This was and is an obvious lie and brings into question anything that the medical government complex tells us.
No, you misunderstood. Vaccinated people get less sick, produce less 'carriers' and in this way the transmission is reduced (which in the end stops spreading Covid).
This only works for a sterilising vaccine. We don't have those for COVID, or for most of the other diseases which transmit from the sinus cavity. There is no evidence of a measurable reduction of transmission with the weakly effective COVID vaccines.

I don't know why so many people misunderstand the concept.
Likely it is due to the spread of mis-information. Scientifically you can say the vaccines don't stop spreading the virus. This makes some people jump to the conclusion (or just parrotting) that the vaccines are useless. But if vaccines are useless, then we would still have problems with polio and measles which spread the same way as Covid does. But we don't because a significant portion of the population has been vaccinated to achieve herd immunity. And this herd immunity needs to be maintained.

How about the recent wave of Polio in Africa, the one that immunization was supposed to quell? The one that is traced to the vaccine itself???  The Oral Polio Vaccine was stopped in most countries because of this risk, which we have known about for at least 50 years.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/sep/02/vaccine-derived-polio-spreads-in-africa-after-defeat-of-wild-virus

Vaccines are not without risks, now we have an outcome that is potentially worse than the initial disease. 

Polio is transmitted orally- fecal route. Measles is transmitted thru respiratory secretions.

COVID is probably transmitted thru respiratory secretions although fecal route is also possible.    This may be important. 


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41575-020-0295-7   

It may also give us a new use for those protective surgical masks: 
CDN media

Please get your transmission line theory in order.

« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 11:30:01 am by Wallace Gasiewicz »
 

Offline AndyBeez

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #168 on: August 05, 2023, 11:36:35 am »
Damn, no wonder those masks are disposable! For those discussing covid, the virus was already in circulation in Europe by November 2019. It was just called a 'winter respiratory virus'. And as such, no balls were dropped.

While it is just one study it still indicates proper analysis of historical weather analysis can prove storms were more common (here in NZ) when CO2 levels were half of what they are now.
I was told by a Kiwi that the Scotts settled in Dunedin because it always rains and the sun never shines. It reminded them of home.

Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get. UK weather today: A 'named' storm brings heavy precipitation and gales to the south. So it is time to insert another media quote. “A hotter world means extreme weather events will become more common place.” Everyone else here calls it a typical sh1t English summer. Like those in Dunedin? At least the bad weather will keep the climate protesters indoors.

Some other quotes for insertion are these gems: "Climate scientists predict global temperatures will rise to levels not seen since the Roman period." Another, "Greenland temperatures have not been this high since the Viking settlements." I am not even going to ask you to join those dots because you are smart guys and here on the EEVBlog. Ordinary people though, take what ever the media spoon is feeding to them. So if it sounds catastrophic, it must be.

On the subject of climate data, below (and freakishly big) is a map of global temperatures from 1850 thru 2017, expressed as, “Warming stripes”. Note the red zone to the right, which demonstrates the rise in global temperatures. So the middle and left? Blue means cooler? Take a look at the other stripe series on the blog https://www.climate-lab-book.ac.uk/2018/warming-stripes/ I wonder what the public’s perception of these maps would be if we used the astrophysics colour convention whereby blue was hot and red was cool?

Insert quote again, “the people are demanding climate action.”
Are we? New word for 2023 and the Trump campaign :Green lash

Quote
Annual global temperatures from 1850-2017 - by Ed Hawkins, Climate scientist at the UK’s National Centre for Atmospheric Science (NCAS University of Reading)

 https://www.climate-lab-book.ac.uk/2018/warming-stripes/
« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 11:57:19 am by AndyBeez »
 

Offline RAPo

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #169 on: August 05, 2023, 11:37:03 am »

I don't know why so many people misunderstand the concept.
Likely it is due to the spread of mis-information.
 Scientifically you can say the vaccines don't stop spreading the virus.
This makes some people jump to the conclusion (or just parrotting) that the vaccines ...

Nope, the scientific community let politics get away with this statement. In the Netherlands politicians stated clearly :
take the vaccine it will stop the spread.

The scientific institute didn't counteract this. And by not counteracting, the people distrust both politicians and scientists. And they have all the right to do so.
 

Offline Dr. Frank

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #170 on: August 05, 2023, 11:44:57 am »
Climate Research is therefore not yet a "complete" science, as the final experimental proof will be available in 30, 50, 100 years from now.

I suspect it will never be a complete science. It's just such a complex dynamic system, and our ability to accurately measure stuff on a global scale is limited.
Even in the 30, 50, 100 years time, the "proof" may not be available. The result might match a prediction, but having absolute proof your model was right will still be elusive.
They already have not had the best track record in this regard.


Can you name ONE complete science,  according to your definition?

If incomplete then there is no point ?


Well, Physics is strictly based on this concept of proof, so it's such a "complete" science.

We had several bad examples like Cold Fusion by Fleischman and Pons, and in Germany the "Physics Faker" Jan Hendrik Schön, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sch%C3%B6n_scandal, which led to a stricter Peer Review process.
Peer Review I should add to my description of "Scientific Methods", and which is still lacking to the actual discussion about possible new room temperature superconductors.

Physics anyhow, does never raise the claim to find the absolute truth. The confirmed results give the best description of phenomena's at a given time, but can always be improved, complemented or even falsified at a later point in time.

I agree to Dave that Climate Research might face problems to really confirm their predictions, due to very vague measurements or unstable simulation models, also due to the complexity and chaotic behavior.

For me, that whole IPCC science community is non-transparent, and their simulations are very difficult to reproduce.

That's in big contrast to the usual behavior of the physics community. For example, when the New Kilogram was defined, you could openly follow the discussion and the experiments, how and when they made their decisive measurements on the Kibble balance versus the Avogadro experiment (Silicon sphere)- They also explained to the public, how they came to their conclusions.

Please, download the latest full AR6 report: https://report.ipcc.ch/ar6/wg1/IPCC_AR6_WGI_FullReport.pdf
Try to follow all their simulations, measurements, and so forth, which decide over the ww. strategy how to combat the global warming.
You can decide for a strict CO2 budget, i.e. absolutely no more fossile burning any more, or you can take into consideration, that 50% of the emissions are absorbed by the oceans and by rising land vegetation, which would give much more time for changes.

The IPCC decided that the 2nd option is not feasible due to a probable depletion of this effect.

I'm following a Climate lecture series of a German physics professor, who recently notified, that this IPCC decision is based on a single, very nebulous paper, which is also not well cited in this report.
As this is only a singular indication, that the IPCC report might not be well founded, I want to understand more about that whole scientific construct.

So I will stay skeptical further on, but will not negate the whole Climate Change discussion, as I'm convinced since 1978, that it's one severe problem, but beneath many others, over-population being the worst.

On the UN charter for sustainability, it's also one item amongst 16 others:
https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/

Frank
 

Offline Wallace Gasiewicz

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #171 on: August 05, 2023, 11:52:41 am »
RAPo:
PLEASE QUOTE CORRECTLY
That was not me saying   this particular quote

It was me Quoting tom66
« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 12:04:07 pm by Wallace Gasiewicz »
 
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Offline RAPo

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #172 on: August 05, 2023, 12:01:31 pm »
Sorry,but the presentation really made it look like the red text is yours.
 
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Offline Wallace Gasiewicz

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Re: heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
« Reply #173 on: August 05, 2023, 12:17:40 pm »
I will have to be more careful also, Probably use italics for quotes, or something like that
This thread is getting a bit complicated and quite active.
And I agree with you the Authorities made it clear that the Vaccines would stop the spread and stop the disease. They kept hounding us, saying that vaccinations help the other person. Fauci himself said that the Vaccines would provide Herd Immunity.  Herd Immunity does not occur in "non sterilizing" vaccines. Old Article for reference:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2020/09/23/fauci-were-nowhere-near-herd-immunityin-the-us/?sh=2bfab3c979f3

They had no idea what the success rate would be and did not know the complications and maybe even hid the adverse effects from the medical community and the populace. If he thought the Vaccines would induce Herd Immunity, either he does not know what that means or does not know what the vaccines will do or is just lying and making thing up out of thin air..
 
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Offline Wallace Gasiewicz

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