General > General Technical Chat
heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
mendip_discovery:
--- Quote from: PlainName on August 05, 2023, 06:03:17 pm ---
--- Quote ---As a kid of the 80's I grew up with the fear of the Ozone layer being destroyed and we even had a TV show called Captain Planet and the Planeteers and that made a big thing about cleaning up the world. Yet it didn't do a thing to change stuff if the current press is to be believed.
--- End quote ---
Didn't the ban on CFCs fix that up? Can't recall any recent press stuff about this either way, so if you have a relevant link I'd be interested to see it.
--- End quote ---
I remember reading a story about the hole in the ozone is repairing itself so has been reported but why celebrate a success when you carry on pushing the next panic.
https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/rebuilding-ozone-layer-how-world-came-together-ultimate-repair-job
tszaboo:
--- Quote from: Dr. Frank on August 05, 2023, 06:43:43 pm ---
--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 05, 2023, 06:17:36 pm ---
In a way, it's not possible to apply the scientific method when dealing with an unknown situation. We didn't have a large global pandemic for a while, the last one, Spanish flu maybe killed more people than WW2. So our politicians are not prepared to handle it, because they are not experts. So what is the reasonable thing to do? Stepping down and creating a party neutral cabinet with experts. Almost no politician said that they have no idea how to handle the situation while stepping down, and that's just criminal.
You can even look at the German government when they had a diversity hire as the Minister of Defense, who never served, while there is a war going on in Europe.
Instead important positions are filled up with ideologs and idiots.
--- End quote ---
I fully disagree on the first part
"Scientists" are able to analyze existing data, and from that make good predictions for unknown cases and into the future.
As well they always do research on expected future scenarios, "what would be, if".
Those are the key features of a real scientist, I guess.
Especially in this case our Robert Koch Institute had a big data base of all virus epidemics, pandemics and the "seasonal" flu, probably covering over 100 years.
Those epidemiologist's for a long time already expected another pandemic event. Remember, that the Pig Flu about 15 years ago, Ebola, and also AIDS were already epidemic or pandemic diseases. So the medical guys should have been prepared a long time ago.. sure the politicians everywhere have absolutely no clue, neither in medical nor in climate / energy questions.
Another story: In late 2019, Physicists from Göttingen, Aerosol research, only they investigated theoretically on the transport mechanism of viruses under different circumstances like talking, singing, making music, and they made the suiting experiments. They found out the distance of those ominous 1.5m, where the aerosol particles fall down by gravity, and they did practical research on the effectiveness of different kind of face masks. They also investigated on room particle filters for schools.
None of their results were taken over by those government experts, and after 3 years of blind flying, our gvt. was still not able to recognize anything useful, especially our infamous Prof. "Karlchen" Lauterbach, who was by chance my fellow student at RWTH Aachen at that early 1980ties.
Frank
--- End quote ---
OK, I don't disagree with you about that part. They could and they have made models. That is part of the scientific method. Let's look at what the question is:
Is the lock down, socially distance and closing down stores an effective method of containing the virus while not wrecking the economy completely?
We didn't go full circle on the scientific method. We didn't have control groups. After the data was gathered there was no interpretation, and often times people were forbid from publishing their results. There was no retest. Well, in a way there was, because the lockdown was more and more lifted after a while. In any case, IMHO the scientific method failed when it comes to the big questions about how to handle it. It triumphed in other areas, the fast development of MRNA is a testament to that.
It wasn't the failure of the biology, it was a breakdown of social sciences. The failure of that, we are seeing in so many of today's issues, where it provides no resolution to most of today's issues.
Dr. Frank:
--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 05, 2023, 07:29:47 pm ---
OK, I don't disagree with you about that part. They could and they have made models. That is part of the scientific method. Let's look at what the question is:
Is the lock down, socially distance and closing down stores an effective method of containing the virus while not wrecking the economy completely?
We didn't go full circle on the scientific method. We didn't have control groups. After the data was gathered there was no interpretation, and often times people were forbid from publishing their results. There was no retest. Well, in a way there was, because the lockdown was more and more lifted after a while. In any case, IMHO the scientific method failed when it comes to the big questions about how to handle it. It triumphed in other areas, the fast development of MRNA is a testament to that.
It wasn't the failure of the biology, it was a breakdown of social sciences. The failure of that, we are seeing in so many of today's issues, where it provides no resolution to most of today's issues.
--- End quote ---
You're correct, as well. But those scientific methods you correctly described, were simply not applied.
I also doubt, that these guys ever have heard of that stuff.
From sad personal experience, I regard medicine in most cases as a Trial-and-Error handcraft.
Therefore I liked the series "House, M.D. " so much.
Wallace Gasiewicz:
I regard Medicine as Applied Science, but differs from Engineering in that almost everything in Medicine is still a Black Box. We still do not understand all the interconnections and are trying to analyze the box using only something like using a VNA to analyze input and output from an extremely complicated circuit. That is the best short analogy I can come up with now.Not to mention the fact that the schematics from the manufacturer are not to be found.Everyone is fond of using statistics to analyze the situation but they fail to realize that statistics are just an analysis of "chance".
Now, the recent COVID illustrated the false predictions and wrong assumptions and orders that the Govmint put into place, there is no excuse for outright falsehoods being held up as the truth. Then there was and still is the persecution of those who disagree. This is not science, this is
"Do as you are told".
By the way I liked "House" also, I especially liked his kindly bedside manner and his equitable treatment of his colleagues..
Bud:
Yes yes, Ebola. Paid kids falling into mud and rolling in the mud in imaginary pain while their mothers watched a few meters away. Who leaked that, someone from Reuters i believe?
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version