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heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.
PlainName:
--- Quote from: RAPo on August 10, 2023, 01:44:18 pm ---
--- Quote from: PlainName on August 10, 2023, 01:10:47 pm ---That's conflating solution with problem.
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if the urgency is that high we should look for solutions,not problems.
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Indeed. But urgency doesn't suddenly impart previously hidden knowledge or skills - using the right people for the job is even more important when gut reactions get a free pass.
Sredni:
--- Quote from: RAPo on August 10, 2023, 08:13:05 am ---
--- Quote from: Sredni on August 10, 2023, 07:13:39 am ---About the 1500 scientists from around the world...
From https://www.desmog.com/climate-intelligence-foundation-clintel/
https://youtu.be/3n3Hq7XSBjA
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What are you trying to say?
Are only the lefty parties in the Netherlands right about what is happening with the climate?
Is the statement about scepticism about how we are tackling the climate situation bad because it is from a right-wing party?
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No, it's not a matter of left or right. It's a matter of science vs. political groups funded by corporations with vested interests. These 'influencing groups' are using a facade of scientific plausibility to basically just shill for billionaires. Not that much different from those doctors that a few decades ago were 'convinced' that cigarettes were not that bad for your lungs.
--- Quote ---Are you saying only climate scientists may have a say? Is expertise from other sciences not allowed?
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Well, when it comes to climate science, it would help to heed the warnings of... climate scientists, yes.
Just like when I suspect I might have an inflamed appendix, I very much prefer to hear the opinion of a medical doctor, and not a biologist, or a botanist. Go figure.
--- Quote ---What exactly is wrong with "have connections to libertarian free-market groups"?
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The Latins said "cui prodest?", so since ancient times it was clear that it is always better to ask who is going to gain from this? I would add, "nihil novi sub solem". Rich/powerful people trying to influence the masses in order to retain their wealth/power.
And yes, in this case there is a slant toward the right, because in general billionaires, in a capitalistic market, tend to lean towards the right. So they are the ones who have to money to fund think tanks that will churn out these constructed news and disseminate them to the press (and to the newspapers/news station/media outlets they own or control). I am pretty sure one can find examples of these sort of behavior founded by left parties or left leaning billionaires, and that does not make them any better than the ones funded by the right. They just defend their own interests, and that's not science.
To make an example of a left leaning individual, not a group, that might be considered an 'influencer': during the pandemic Bill Maher has always been pushing for removing lock downs and go back to normal. On his show, he invited several guests, doctors, researchers that agreed with him on this. At first I thought... "look at Bill, he pushes for the lifting of restrictions on public assemblies because he wants to earn money with his gigs in Vegas and around the US..."
But I was wrong. The real reason, I believe, came out during an interview with Jimmy Kimmel in one of his podcasts: apparently Maher had bought a considerable portion of shares in a baseball team and was LOSING a lot of money because of the lockdowns. No wonder he was inviting 'experts' sharing his view that lockdowns were bad, and useless. Can we say that his was an impartial view? I don't think so.
--- Quote ---Can you imagine that free-market groups can develop better ideas for climate adaptation (if needed) than the government?
In order to pay for the climate plans, you need money, and money comes from economic growth, or are you propagating more and more state debts?
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So, now you are shifting from science to politics and to how to implement solution to a problem. But these climate deniers group (who have a vested interest in keeping up with the pollution) are saying the the problem does not exist and therefore no solution is needed. Again, cui prodest?
Miti:
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 10, 2023, 10:21:38 am ---Why would their professional opinion matter when they are not professionals in the field of climate science?
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Good question! Following this logic, the vaccinologists and virusologists should have been allowed to have a saying in the Covid management. However, only those who sang in tune with Fauci and Trudeau were allowed to speak. The others (see Byram Bridle, Robert Malone and many, many others) were fired and deplatformed from the intelligence agencies sites renamed to social media.
Moreover, the “climate scientists “ are most likely the first to be targeted by certain groups of financial interests. And you know, money talk. Who pays for the study gets the results that he expects.
coppice:
--- Quote from: Miti on August 10, 2023, 04:49:49 pm ---Who pays for the study gets the results that he expects.
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Pollsters have interesting language that they use to interact with clients to avoid saying what they are really mean, which is essentially "what answer do you want?". The questions will be worded to achieve the goal. When pollsters approach I usually respond, unless I'm busy. Its interesting to listen to the tortured wording of many of the questions, which are being read verbatim from a cue card.
RAPo:
I would love to hear the answers from the OP.
I'm questioning because there are a lot intensions not spoken out.
It is best to quote the whole expression not only "cui prodest" but cui prodest scelus is fecit, (for whom the crime advances, he has done it). And that aptly describes the case with politicians and the scientists saying the climate is in urgent state of repair, but unwilling to look at nuclear energy.
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