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| heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial. |
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| snarkysparky:
Ok, I get it. Most here believe that CO2 is causing problems by disturbing our climate but it just isn't worth doing much about since the end outcome of burning all the fossil fuel in the ground will just be some "weather". I hope your right, cause that is exactly what we are going to do. |
| tautech:
Blame Al Gore, he started this illusion. |
| vad:
--- Quote from: snarkysparky on August 02, 2023, 02:12:31 pm ---Ok, I get it. Most here believe that CO2 is causing problems by disturbing our climate but it just isn't worth doing much about since the end outcome of burning all the fossil fuel in the ground will just be some "weather". I hope your right, cause that is exactly what we are going to do. --- End quote --- The climate has always been changing. That is a well-known fact. I do not see how deforestation for the sake of production of biofuels helps in reducing CO2 emissions. I do not see how burning hydrocarbons to mine, refine and transport elements for EV battery production helps in reducing CO2 emissions. |
| tom66:
--- Quote from: vad on August 02, 2023, 02:38:23 pm ---The climate has always been changing. That is a well-known fact. --- End quote --- Nobody is arguing otherwise, but climate skeptics love their strawmen with this statement. The question is not whether the climate is warming or cooling, but whether it is warming or cooling too much, and it appears that it is, and that humans are the direct cause of the vast majority of that warming. --- Quote from: vad on August 02, 2023, 02:38:23 pm ---I do not see how deforestation for the sake of production of biofuels helps in reducing CO2 emissions. --- End quote --- Well, it probably doesn't - at least if you consider land-use changes as part of effective CO2 emissions. However, if instead of deforestation you take, for instance, low grade waste crop and animal "leavings" and process those into biofuels, then it can be carbon neutral. Not carbon negative, but by not emitting any net CO2 it is better than the alternative. Biofuels are a very tricky area to get right. Algae biofuels are the holy grail, but attempts at commercialisation so far have been unsuccessful. --- Quote from: vad on August 02, 2023, 02:38:23 pm ---I do not see how burning hydrocarbons to mine, refine and transport elements for EV battery production helps in reducing CO2 emissions. --- End quote --- Surely you can see the simple relation of fixed cost + ongoing cost, it is not just a fixed cost. Call it K1+nK2, and K3+nK4 is cost of fossil car, both sum of manufacturing and running emissions over 'n' years, if K1+nK2 is less than K3+nK4 then extra CO2 emissions to produce EV batteries can be a net winner. In Europe the figure 'n' is about 2-3 years for EV batteries. In China it is closer to 3-4 years due to higher levels of coal on Chinese powergrid. Still, a car lasts ~15 years, so generally a winner. |
| Siwastaja:
--- Quote from: snarkysparky on August 02, 2023, 02:12:31 pm ---Most here believe that CO2 is causing problems by disturbing our climate but it just isn't worth doing much about --- End quote --- Is that really your honest conclusion, given that it was not only me who stressed that it's most important to choose effective measures against CO2 rise, while fearmongering actually hinders such rational decision-making? Or are you throwing a temper tantrum with your failed attempt to collect like-minded people for your cancel mob against mr. Clauser? I really hope the latter is not the case. You can also choose to ignore oversimplifiers like vad instead of treating all of us as "man-made climate change deniers". They are entitled to their opinion and quite frankly it's not more wrong than yours, just in the opposite direction. The actual truth is much more convoluted and representation of the truth subject to change when times change, which is also why I would be careful to label people as narcissists or bad people just because you seem to disagree now, on some matters; especially if you were honest with your opening sentence, "I don't understand". Don't dig a hole too deep for yourself because it might be that others have some viable points after all and you have to live with the rest of us, on this same planet. Listen what others have to say instead of condemning. |
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