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heartbroken that John Clauser seems to have joined climate change denial.

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Siwastaja:
vad's points about biofuels and EV battery production are fair. Biofuels require careful balance, so that we use waste to make that biofuel in the first place; even better would be to minimize that waste. Whenever biofuels are too heavily subsidized, there is risk of replacing food production with biofuels so increasing food price for the poor in order to offer better self-consciousness for fuel-heavy SUV-owning class. Also risk of deforestation due to biofuels must be taken seriously to make sure it does not happen; biofuels in the end do not offer that great of land use efficiency, and the efficiency during use is crap, too.

Then EVs. I'm definitely quite pro-EV and have been developing EV technology myself, but I don't like the trend of increasing vehicle size and weight as "allowed" by the advances in technology. This was already visible before the hybrid/EV era with 1500kg 3-liter SUVs replacing 1000kg 1.6-liter sedans as "standard family car", in that very same class who tweet about their flight shame.

With apples-to-apples comparison, replacing small gasoline cars with small EVs, that are used until the battery is dead, is obviously a significant improvement in total energy use, even when you properly account for the fixed cost of making one. If combined with city planning which reduces the need for cars (remember, that always doesn't make sense, and it's a colossally bad idea to force this, e.g. in the countryside / small towns), the improvement can  be significant. But this isn't truly happening. If people are replacing apples with oranges, then we need to do apples-to-oranges comparison. What we see are heavy and large luxury EVs in Tesla Model S/X size, and large diesel hybrid SUVs in same size class. So don't be surprised to see critique against EVs and hybrids. Probably, given ever-increasing wind/PV production and increasing possibilities of controlling when to charge your EV, even those large luxury cars are still an improvement because the ICE baseline is so colossally bad it's easy to improve upon. But it could be so much better.

You should allow people like vad to talk about the problems even if they don't represent them exactly correctly. There still is a point in this.

eutectique:

--- Quote from: tom66 on August 01, 2023, 09:59:10 pm ---Insurance and financial companies are taking significant actions against climate change.

--- End quote ---

What actions against climate change exactly? Increasing cost of insurance or mortgage? Would these actions help to lower the yearly average temperature globally or in England only?



--- Quote from: tom66 on August 01, 2023, 09:59:10 pm ---For instance, some banks will not issue mortgages on properties at risk of future flood risk, because they don't like the idea of an asset they can't collect against in 20-30 years time.

--- End quote ---

Would you care to point to an exact paragraph, please? I could only find the following:


--- Quote ---Barclays : Hammerstein reiterated that the bank did not have a policy of restricting availability of mortgages to those in flood risk areas, adding “we lend irrespective of the flood risk band”. He said that a restriction would arise if a borrower was unwilling or unable to obtain insurance.

HSBC : “Our expectation is that we would continue to lend on these properties beyond 2035, subject to the properties being insurable. We believe that the extension of Flood Re beyond 2035 is therefore critical,” he explained.

Lloyds : Other factors that would impact offering long-term mortgages would be ongoing flood defence maintenance, initiatives such as Flood Re and enforcement of flood resilience measures.

Natwest : Rose said that Natwest would only lend where the property is insurable and has flood cover. She continued that the firm had declined fewer than five applications from around 120,000 based on the advice from a value.

--- End quote ---

snarkysparky:

--- Quote from: Siwastaja on August 02, 2023, 03:17:41 pm ---
--- Quote from: snarkysparky on August 02, 2023, 02:12:31 pm ---Most here believe that CO2 is causing problems by disturbing our climate but it just isn't worth doing much about

--- End quote ---

Is that really your honest conclusion, given that it was not only me who stressed that it's most important to choose effective measures against CO2 rise, while fearmongering actually hinders such rational decision-making? Or are you throwing a temper tantrum with your failed attempt to collect like-minded people for your cancel mob against mr. Clauser? I really hope the latter is not the case.

You can also choose to ignore oversimplifiers like vad instead of treating all of us as "man-made climate change deniers". They are entitled to their opinion and quite frankly it's not more wrong than yours, just in the opposite direction. The actual truth is much more convoluted and representation of the truth subject to change when times change, which is also why I would be careful to label people as narcissists or bad people just because you seem to disagree now, on some matters; especially if you were honest with your opening sentence, "I don't understand". Don't dig a hole too deep for yourself because it might be that others have some viable points after all and you have to live with the rest of us, on this same planet. Listen what others have to say instead of condemning.

--- End quote ---


Not burning fossil fuel is an effective measure against CO2 rise.  You on  board ?
How do you get a democratic society to voluntarily accept extra costs and hardship without explaining  ( fearmongering )  the risks.   We don't seem to mind a little fearmongering when war is afoot.

To believe ( without any proof )  that climate change will be not be a disasterous ending is itself a kinda denial.  If you had sound theoretical proof that we can deal with digging up 30 million years of stored carbon and stuffing it into our atmosphere in a geological microsecond with only tolerable changes then where is it?

Lets review the issue with Mr Clauser.  He is cozying up to a petroleum industry supported group that spreads climate BS.   It isn't a place for honorable people.

I haven't identified ANYONE on this board in any posting.  How are you imagining who I am targeting?

I still don't understand how anyone with serious credentials who doesn't need to sell out suddenly decides to align himself with dishonest political organizations.

Surely there is a large body of credible research done by those who are qualified that makes the counter case against significant damage to climate.
Clauser has his own research claiming that cloud cover will largely negate CO2 heat trapping by reflecting energy into space.   You hear that VENUS!  your not as hot as ya think!



Wallace Gasiewicz:
Quote from: snarkysparky on Today at 04:15:19 pmQuote from: Siwastaja on Today at 03:17:41 pmQuote from: snarkysparky on Today at 02:12:31 pm
Most here believe that CO2 is causing problems by disturbing our climate but it just isn't worth doing much about

--- End quote ---


--- End quote ---
I guess I am not in the category "Most" , I suppose I could feel badly that I am a victim of this micro aggression. But I am used to not being in the category of "Most"

In response to the statements about mortgage companies and flood plains. Here in US the government has insurance for these properties. The only other company that I know of that covers flood plain properties here in US is Lloyd's.
Loyd's s much less expensive than the government insurance. This situation has been in place for a lot longer than the current "climate change" issue, nothing new at least to me and my personal experience with these insurances.


--- End quote ---

Miti:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 02, 2023, 11:58:03 am ---
--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 02, 2023, 10:26:39 am ---I really don't know how facts could succeed, when we scared young people to the point that they have depression and existential fear due to this. It's all just emotions at this point.
--- End quote ---

Yep, that's why I said it's gone too far, and they are only pushing harder and harder with the fear. It's now officially "Global Boiling" according to the UN chief  :palm:
I for one am done with it all this fear being pushed. We had a lifetimes worth of that crap during covid. And we had enough of the fear of being "cancelled" during the woke wars.
The more they push the fear the more people are going to push back, and that includes people who believe in it and want to help fix things.

--- End quote ---

Respect Sir!

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