Help identifying an OLD font?

[TerraHertz]

I'm restoring a very old spotwelder. It has an air pressure gauge that was exposed to moisture for a long time. The gauge internals are fine but the faceplate paint is wrecked. I'll photoshop and print a new dial face and glue it to the original metal disk.

Ideally the new one will be in the same style as the old one. There's the problem. I can't identify the font of the numerals.
Here are the still legible numbers extracted from a scan of the decayed dial.



See the image of the dial. Pretty far gone, but an interesting pic.

Can anyone identify that font?  Preferably a freeware one.
http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/  fails.

One close but still significantly different, is called 'Haas normande semi-bold.' Found that in an old fonts encyclopedia, not a digital file. Doesn't matter though. I only need the numerals and only in one size, so scanning and scaling images of a font sample will work.

It's this spotwelder: http://everist.org/NobLog/20200208_neglected_561.htm#spot

[Domagoj T]

Not quite the same but very similar. Probably a bit of photoshop could bring some of these to almost exact replica:
https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/mti/atorlando/caps-189247/
https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/mti/engravers-mt/std-regular-190579/
https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/mti/engravers-mt/pro-regular-190579/
https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/typomancer/lynx/serif/

Also, not free

[Syntax Error]

It's a fairly standard antique chapter ring/clock typeface.

For example: https://thegraphicsfairy.com/clock-face/

Very similar to the 1970's designed ITC Tiffany standard heavy font family.

[TerraHertz]

Not quite the same but very similar. Probably a bit of photoshop could bring some of these to almost exact replica:

Actually very different.

Also, not free

Free for just numerals in one size.

[TerraHertz]

The clock font - nope.


ITC Tiffany standard heavy - nope.


There are many fonts with the straight-sided internal verticals like on the Dial Zeros, but fancy curves on the horizontals bars. Which gives them an entirely different feel.

Too bad the '5' on the gauge didn't survive. But I expect it has a plain bar like the '2' and '7'.

[Domagoj T]

Actually very different.

I suppose we have different standards as to what is very different.
Anyway, this is somewhat less different:
https://www.urbanfonts.com/fonts/Onyx.font

[helius]

From an old type catalog, I found "Devinne Roman" and "Century Expanded Bold Roman" to be closest, with some slight differences that would be easy to change in Illustrator or Fontographer.

[tooki]

I'm restoring a very old spotwelder. It has an air pressure gauge that was exposed to moisture for a long time. The gauge internals are fine but the faceplate paint is wrecked. I'll photoshop and print a new dial face and glue it to the original metal disk.

Ideally the new one will be in the same style as the old one. There's the problem. I can't identify the font of the numerals.
Here are the still legible numbers extracted from a scan of the decayed dial.

(Attachment Link)

See the image of the dial. Pretty far gone, but an interesting pic.

Can anyone identify that font?  Preferably a freeware one.
http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/  fails.

One close but still significantly different, is called 'Haas normande semi-bold.' But that's in an old fonts encyclopedia, not a digital file.

It's this spotwelder: http://everist.org/NobLog/20200208_neglected_561.htm#spot

There’s a good chance it was never a whole font at all, just a set of numerals designed for (or by) that manufacturer.

Its highly distinctive feature (within the tiny sample we have available) is the right-pointing serif on the crossbar of the 7. In most fonts, it’s facing to the left or has no slant.

I doubt you’ll be able to find an exact digital clone.

[helius]

From a 1975 Mecanorma catalog, "Jeannette" is quite close.
From a 1970s Berkeley Typographers catalog: "Torino" is a close match for 0, 1, 7, 8, 9, not quite for 2, 3. "Onyx" and "Mondial Bold Condensed" both have rather thicker fills.
It's not always the case that a flat base 2 goes with a flat top 7: "Andrich Minerva", for example, has a flat 2 but a rolled 7.
I think something in the Century family is closest overall.

[edpalmer42]

Given the limited source material, it's unlikely that a tool will give a good match although it's possible.  A request in a font forum would likely work better.  For anyone who's interested, here are a few random font resources:

https://techreviewpro.com/what-font-is-this-font-identifier-apps-7092/
https://www.myfonts.com/
http://fontsgeek.com/
http://www.identifont.com/  <-- nice question/answer tool, but doesn't do well due to limited source info

[SpecialK]

Why so sentimental? Is there any reason to think this was the original gauge?  I can imagine that over the years this gauge has probably been replaced.  It does look like it would be exposed to being kicked.

[amyk]

I tried making a font from the images. The 5 is what I think it would look like, and the 6 is an inverted 9. There's some lumpiness especially in the curves but you can open it in a TTF editor and adjust as desired.

[TerraHertz]

Why so sentimental? Is there any reason to think this was the original gauge?  I can imagine that over the years this gauge has probably been replaced.  It does look like it would be exposed to being kicked.

I'm certain it _is_ the original gauge. Exact same jointing cement on the threads, and same 'heavy on the brass' production style.
As for 'sentimental', well yes. I'm blown away by the regulator massive brass construction, and just this air-related section is going to look really steampunk when restored. I think the original font looks cool and in matching spirit too. Very bold and unique, with those absolute straight edges on inner concavities. So I want to keep that. Yes, it very likely was a font unique to the gauge manufacturer.

I haven't yet looked at the recent font suggestions, but will. Since I only need to photoshop dial numerals, I don't really need a 'font' as such. Just decently hi-res scans of a matching font's numerals in uniform large size would do.

In the meantime, here are some pics of the regulator etc.

[Twoflower]

Probably the best way is first to identify the manufacturer.

Maybe that helps to search a bit further. The font on this gauge looks very similar: BRASS PRESSURE GAUGE - 1930'S (link to a shop). The texts on the face doesn't match but the numbers are quite matching.

But so far my google-fu didn't brought us a successful follow-up search. Maybe someone else can use it.

Edit: An other gauge. It actually matches better, but lots of numbers are missing for your gauge: vintage industrial pressure gauge VACUUM Made in England (link to shop).

[Rerouter]

Engravers MT looks to be a very close match,
Onyx has the spacing off a little, but is next most similar.

When I have had to do this in the past, I just traced out the originals as vectors and then used that going forward, but I was using cad tools not photoshop.

[Nominal Animal]

I use Inkscape exclusively for this kind of work.  If you don't already have it installed, you're depriving yourself of an excellent free tool.  (Said by someone who really loved Freehand before Macromedia was sold to Adobe, although Illustrator was almost as good.  You young whippersnappers probably have no idea what I'm talking about.)

Put the image of the old dial to a locked bottom layer, then draw and finesse the details as vectors.  There's all kinds of tools to help make the dial lines et cetera.  Best possible fidelity for the printout, and it is easy to compare the original and the new one.  You can even pick an "almost" correct font, type the numbers, convert them to paths, and adjust them as needed.

If the dial image was not missing 5 and 6 (although it is likely 6 is close to a rotated 9), I'd have whipped up a basic dial for you already; it's a really quick way to work with restoration/replacement/adjusting a dial face.

[helius]

Maybe that helps to search a bit further. The font on this gauge looks very similar: BRASS PRESSURE GAUGE - 1930'S (link to a shop).

Wow, I have no idea how you found this. The photos are close to straight-on and would be easy to trace.
You can use Illustrator CS or later's autotrace tool to turn figures like this into line art automatically. My preference is actually for the older Adobe Streamline, which has more options and is very fast. As line art, it can be scaled, stretched, or rotated as needed.

[Nominal Animal]

Here's as far as I got until I got bored.  It's a zipped Inkscape SVG file, with one of the pressure gauge images embedded on a background layer, with the dial face features (except the digits!) on a text layer, and the gradations on a separate layer.

Reason I got bored was that I don't have any of the close matches fonts installed, and am too lazy Saturday to install one right now.  It's easier to find a close match, make it semi-transparent, and tweak to match the image.

Maybe it helps, maybe not, but here it is!   

[amyk]

I already tried making a font in my previous post; looks like the 5 is almost the same without the serif at the top, but that should be easy to fix.

[bsdphk]

I think it is a fundamental misunderstanding to think that the scale was made with a font.

A sign-painter painted the master for the silk-screening, and the numerals shape is one of his "usual strokes".

Your best bet for finding something similar, is therefore to study photos of shop windows near (time&space) the place of manufacture, or maybe more accessible, books about historical sign-painting.

[TerraHertz]

I already tried making a font in my previous post; looks like the 5 is almost the same without the serif at the top, but that should be easy to fix.

That's very close, thanks. But does need fine tuning. several of the digits are too wide, and the 5 doesn't match the correct 5 from the gauge image TwoFlower found.  I think I can fix it up myself.

My current photoshop file is here: http://everist.org/pics/gauge/gauge_overlay_7.psd   10MB  Photoshop 5.5

That includes layers with the complete 0-9 sample font (incl extracts from TwoFlower's image) plus a scaled 0-9 of your GAUGE font. You can pan that layer to overlay the font digits on their images, to see the differences.

This photoshop version is just a temp version, experimenting. I had scanned the gauge face at 400 dpi, but for dimensionally accurate printing I'll produce an output file at 300 dpi (and matching the printer's true printable area.) So the working file will be a small integer multiple of 300 dpi.

Turns out the gauge gradations are NOT equal. I'd suspected they wouldn't be, since the mechanism has at least two non-linearities I can think of.
As a result, creating fill-in markers in the missing section of the gauge scale is a bit of a fudge.
The dial circle marking isn't even quite a true circle. I have no idea what the manufacturing process was, and whether that was deliberate or an artifact.  The actual metal dial plate isn't quite round either.


@Twoflower
That's a beautiful gauge. Beats anything I ever found. The glass is bevelled! I also notice it does not have a blow-out plate on the rear. Made in the days when glass shards in the eyes were just a scratch.

The 2nd one, vacuum gauge, made me think 'wait, I have a bunch of pretty old vacuum gauges. maybe...?' Nope, they all have much more recent, boring dial fonts.
Anyway, that gauge gave me adequate font sample images of the missing numerals.

The 4 and 5 above still have a bit of perspective  distortion.

@Nominal Animal
Inkscape, thanks for the recommendation. My OS situation is a bit very archaic.  Still using a 'cut down' version of XP, but I see Inkscape does have a compatible older ver available. I will try it... eventually. The plan is to upgrade switch to Win7, but only after I have a cut-down, sane-itized version, via the NTLite util. But this is a project I keep putting off due to too many others, and something of a phobia re wasting time stuffing around with endless Windows install issues. Life's too short.

SVG - unfortunately I have no SVG utils. Have been meaning to rectify that (for web use.)
Just now looked it up: https://dev.w3.org/SVG/tools/svgweb/docs/QuickStart.html
and came across this: "If native SVG support is already present in the browser then that is used, though you can override this and have the SVG Web toolkit handle things instead. No downloads or plugins are necessary other than Flash which is used for the actual rendering"

OK, which browsers have native SVG support, vs which require Flash for SVG rendering? I need to read more. I won't touch anything that requires Flash.

[Nominal Animal]

OK, which browsers have native SVG support

All since IE 5.0 or so.  Older IE and Netscape did not render text in SVG files, but the zipped SVG file doesn't have any; all it has are paths and the JPEG image on the background.

If you can see my homepage, your browser has very good native SVG support.  It is safe to access, doesn't even have Javascript, and definitely won't suggest you download or install anything.

[TerraHertz]

OK, which browsers have native SVG support

All since IE 5.0 or so.  Older IE and Netscape did not render text in SVG files, but the zipped SVG file doesn't have any; all it has are paths and the JPEG image on the background.

If you can see my homepage, your browser has very good native SVG support.  It is safe to access, doesn't even have Javascript, and definitely won't suggest you download or install anything.

Thanks, I'll still look into SVG. But browsers seem to only render the background image in that font file.
Your home page - nice graphic, but what is the argument for using SVG in a static case like that?
The html is 96KB of meaningless-to-humans SVG script, while a small PNG of the exact same images is 21KB and the wrapping html would be tiny and clear. So why?

[Domagoj T]

You can scale vector graphics as you please.
Zoom in on the penguin (and letters), it stays all pretty. A raster image, such as PNG would get pixelated.

[Nominal Animal]

But browsers seem to only render the background image in that file.

Yeah, because it's in Inkscape edit mode with all sorts of stuff besides; like having the tick marks rotate correctly around the dial face if you want to adjust them.. You can look at the plain version here.

Your home page - nice graphic, but what is the argument for using SVG in a static case like that?

It renders perfectly for both small phone displays, and for maximized windows on a 4K display.

When you view it, you can scale it by either resizing your browser window, or by your Zoom/Scale settings – pressing Ctrl and + or Ctrl and - changes the Zoom/Scale –, and you'll see it stays sharp and scaling defect-free at all cases.  You can't do that with pixmap images.

a small PNG of the exact same images is 21KB

You mean, exact same image on your particular display hardware and zoom/scale level.

Images don't scale well, and I particularly dislike the telltale defects.  SVG works much better.