Author Topic: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone  (Read 34367 times)

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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2011, 01:24:59 pm »
"unlimited time but crippled" software also seems like a success attempt. why dont they just crippled the logic software, instead of "uh oh, you did crash last time! report?"
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline 8086

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2011, 03:07:57 pm »
I actually bought one of these, it's sitting in front of me right now. I use the seleae logic software with it. Works great.

At the time I had $50 but not $150. Sue me. Have me hung, drawn, and quartered. Go on, I dare you.
 

Offline amspire

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2011, 03:10:00 pm »
Actually that is quite a misrepresentation of history :-) Wordstar v?? and Wordperfect prior to V5.1 had no severe copy control and every fool could copy them (Bad sector on Install 5 1/4 inch disk in secret location - and could be copied with COPYMASTER software). Autocad had parallel dongle copy protection from the beginning. I worked for the Danish Distributor of Autocad late 80's start 90's- and Autocad was not easy to crack - but some clever guys did - and Autocad did not like it (at the time - that pushed them into being very active in BSA)

I am not sure it is a misinterpretation of history. I didn't say that Autodesk and Microsoft liked the pirated copies, but they both sure benefited from it massively.

Yes, you could copy the install disk of Wordperfect and Wordstar  - if you had  access to a copy to the install disks. You had to make a copy of these on exactly the same type of disk. I remember being able to do it, and I remember it being a huge pain. I do not remember any file that was easy to swap from which you could make a Wordstar or Wordperfect install disk.   With Word, it was a straight install archive file that you could easily swap on disks or download from bulletin boards.  At the end of the day, Word initially had very little penetration in the corporate market in the 80's and ended up becoming very popular.

Autodesk did have protection but it was cracked as you say, and the cracked version was one of the biggest swapped pirated piece of software of the day.  The result was that like Word, you could install from the cracked install files only. You didn't need a special install disk, so it was much easier to distribute. Everyone could get their hands on Autocad if they wanted to. It wasn't the same with Autocad's competitors.

Pirated Word and AutoCad were hugely popular particularly with university and college students and these were the same people who joined the workforce, and pushed for Word and Autocad in companies.

Neither companies ever allowed the pirated copies in any way, but it took them both to the top of the tree.

Richard
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 03:15:30 pm by amspire »
 

Offline amspire

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2011, 03:19:40 pm »
"unlimited time but crippled" software also seems like a success attempt. why dont they just crippled the logic software, instead of "uh oh, you did crash last time! report?"

They have to be careful. If people have a bad experience with their software, they will ditch it, even if the bad experience was caused by using copied hardware. If people have a great experience, they will come back for more. If they love using it on clone hardware, they they will be licking their lips when a new version is released with better features.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2011, 03:31:13 pm »
yes it can be a problem. not like if the target customers are corporates or U's like AutoCAD or Word. the target for this LA mostly hobbiests. hobbiests love clones :D
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline ToBeFrank

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2011, 04:35:06 pm »
I actually bought one of these, it's sitting in front of me right now. I use the seleae logic software with it. Works great.

At the time I had $50 but not $150. Sue me. Have me hung, drawn, and quartered. Go on, I dare you.

With attitudes like this, I don't blame them for implementing protections. The value in their stuff is not the hardware, it's the software. It works great. They're constantly improving it, and they have great support. It only took me an hour to implement a custom protocol using their SDK, and that included learning the SDK. All of that goes away if they have to close up shop because of thieves. Another great small business bites the dust because of greed and selfishness.
 

Offline 8086

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2011, 04:40:16 pm »
I actually bought one of these, it's sitting in front of me right now. I use the seleae logic software with it. Works great.

At the time I had $50 but not $150. Sue me. Have me hung, drawn, and quartered. Go on, I dare you.

With attitudes like this, I don't blame them for implementing protections. The value in their stuff is not the hardware, it's the software. It works great. They're constantly improving it, and they have great support. It only took me an hour to implement a custom protocol using their SDK, and that included learning the SDK. All of that goes away if they have to close up shop because of thieves. Another great small business bites the dust because of greed and selfishness.

Oh dear. So because I can't afford it, but I can afford a cheaper option, and they leave their software open, that makes me a thief? Hahahaha, no it doesn't.

I actually wanted to buy one of their LAs but I couldn't afford it. I still can't. But I chose their software instead of the other compatible options, so when I buy a more expensive LA, I know which I will be buying.
 

Offline ToBeFrank

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2011, 04:44:40 pm »
Oh dear. So because I can't afford it, but I can afford a cheaper option, and they leave their software open, that makes me a thief? Hahahaha, no it doesn't.

Yes, it does. If a store has no anti-theft protections, are you justified in walking out with something because you can't afford it? Hell no, and it's no different with their software. The fact that you think you're justified here merely because you can't afford it speaks volumes to your character.
 

Offline 8086

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2011, 04:50:41 pm »
Oh dear. So because I can't afford it, but I can afford a cheaper option, and they leave their software open, that makes me a thief? Hahahaha, no it doesn't.

Yes, it does. If a store has no anti-theft protections, are you justified in walking out with something because you can't afford it? Hell no, and it's no different with their software. The fact that you think you're justified here merely because you can't afford it speaks volumes to your character.

If a store puts products on a table with a "free - take one!" sign then I can take one. The software is free to download and use, dummy.
 

Offline ToBeFrank

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2011, 04:53:41 pm »
The software is free to download and use, dummy.

With license to use it with their hardware, but of course you wouldn't know that because you don't care that you are a thief.
 

Offline 8086

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2011, 05:01:37 pm »
The software is free to download and use, dummy.

With license to use it with their hardware, but of course you wouldn't know that because you don't care that you are a thief.

My heart bleeds for them. Perhaps they will go bankrupt now?

You clearly have no connection with the real world. When you establish one, we can continue.
 

Offline ToBeFrank

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2011, 05:05:49 pm »
My heart bleeds for them. Perhaps they will go bankrupt now?

Wow.

Quote
You clearly have no connection with the real world. When you establish one, we can continue.

I hope someday you have your own small business, and you are welcomed to the real world with the same attitude as you have.
 

Offline FreeThinker

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2011, 05:06:12 pm »
Hmm! I think you only get that page if you have tried to access the Saleae site from the link on the Itead site  ;)
pretty much i checked everything until i go back round here (based on the title) ;). i wonder though what make the difference between cheap and quality LA probes, they look the same from outside ??? lose wires (in my term).

One can only wonder if they have bought the rights to use the IronMan picture on their "About" page.....
1.5 years of software development... we should give our symphaty to them. i did msg them to suggest some improvements, they did reply thats a good thing. they said my suggestion is already in their "150 pages todo list" and stating the newer version of the software will come out mid 2012, i hope so, but 150 pages? wahhh, i expect Altium level software to come. errr, i didnt answer your question did i? i'm not sure, but at least they are honest saying only 2 of them developing the LA instead of 1 big company. i wouldnt mind about the IronMan, thats cute.
The Itead supplied probes are (apparently) very cheap and do not grip very well causing poor connections, false triggering etc. Also the colour coding is different to the software coding and the printing on the id tags rubs off. Not major issues but all adding to a lower user experience, but for the price may be acceptable.
Machines were mice and Men were lions once upon a time, but now that it's the opposite it's twice upon a time.
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2011, 05:06:12 pm »
i believe last time they put it open and free for download and test just like today, only when they noticed the clones, they upgraded and erased the older (hackable) version. but who still has the older version is lucky because its can be used with clones. there's worst world out there where people dissasembled codes and change to make shortcuts to bypass software blockage, thats the worst thiefs imho. the older version got exploit(ed)s, no need to crack, so we cannot blame fully on who downloaded it. you may call it a bug if you wish. a "professional" software programmer should have thought about it before laying his hand on the keyboard, otherwise, its partly his fault.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2011, 05:11:06 pm »
At the time I had $50 but not $150. Sue me. Have me hung, drawn, and quartered. Go on, I dare you.
For $50: Open Workbench Logic Sniffer. And you can even use, copy and share the software for free without being fear of the death penalty ;).

the older version got exploit(ed)s, no need to crack, so we cannot blame fully on who downloaded it. you may call it a bug if you wish. a "professional" software programmer should have thought about it before laying his hand on the keyboard, otherwise, its partly his fault.
I consider copy protection mechanisms bugs. They often hurt functionality and usability. It's a breath of fresh air if someone doesn't annoy their users with dumb activation mechanisms.
 

Offline 8086

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2011, 05:14:25 pm »
My heart bleeds for them. Perhaps they will go bankrupt now?

Wow.


Sarcasm detector malfunction?


You clearly have no connection with the real world. When you establish one, we can continue.

I hope someday you have your own small business, and you are welcomed to the real world with the same attitude as you have.

I do have a small business. It isn't anything to do with software.

Using their software means that im familiar with it, and more likely to buy something of theirs instead of a competitor.

The software itself isn't all that, let's be honest. It works, and that's it. There are much better ones out there, with more features, but they do have protection.

I am sure they know exactly what they're doing by offering it for free download. And i'm doubly sure they don't need a one-man army defending them.
 

Offline ToBeFrank

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2011, 05:19:48 pm »
The software itself isn't all that, let's be honest. It works, and that's it. There are much better ones out there, with more features, but they do have protection.

And you don't have one of those because the protection means you can't steal it. Got it.

Quote
I am sure they know exactly what they're doing by offering it for free download.

Yes, they've made it very clear: Counterfeit Devices
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2011, 05:26:07 pm »
I consider copy protection mechanisms bugs. They often hurt functionality and usability. It's a breath of fresh air if someone doesn't annoy their users with dumb activation mechanisms.
it is his fault. copy protection should be easier to be made transparent off the users esp when there's hardware involved imho. with the world of micros today, i dont think we ever need a dongle anymore. but still this is neverending story, these "real thieves" or "hardcore crackers" can be a headache to the developers. but let them with themselves, the developers should concern about the genuine users experience, i do agree with you.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline 8086

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2011, 05:26:34 pm »
The software itself isn't all that, let's be honest. It works, and that's it. There are much better ones out there, with more features, but they do have protection.

And you don't have one of those because the protection means you can't steal it. Got it.

No. They simply don't offer it for free. Having a clause in the EULA is fine, but everyone knows nobody reads it!

The other ones mostly offer the software as a trial. Then it locks you out. But they are virtually all better than the logic software.

If they choose to make the logic software not work with other hardware, then they can do that if they wish. I will continue to use the version I have, and the earth will keep turning.
 

Offline Balaur

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2011, 05:28:44 pm »
Frankly, I don't consider their software so great. It's quite shallow, more an exercise in style than functionality. I cannot build buses, see the sampling ticks or set vertical reticles. The trigger system is simplistic.

However, I'm used to the Tek LA GUI, so please excuse my unjust affirmations. I may buy the Saleae LAs one day, but right now, based on the software alone, I will not be happy with.

I find the Intronix LogicPort Application to be much closer to what I would expect. Plus, the hardware has 34 channels and the triggering seems to be a bit more rational.

Cheers,
Dan
 

Offline ToBeFrank

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2011, 05:31:23 pm »
They simply don't offer it for free. Having a clause in the EULA is fine, but everyone knows nobody reads it!

Just because you didn't read it doesn't mean it doesn't apply, just as because you *can* steal it, doesn't mean it's not stealing.

Quote
The other ones mostly offer the software as a trial. Then it locks you out. But they are virtually all better than the logic software.

So again, you're not stealing it because they prevent you from stealing it.
 

Offline 8086

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2011, 05:34:16 pm »
They simply don't offer it for free. Having a clause in the EULA is fine, but everyone knows nobody reads it!

Just because you didn't read it doesn't mean it doesn't apply, just as because you *can* steal it, doesn't mean it's not stealing.

Quote
The other ones mostly offer the software as a trial. Then it locks you out. But they are virtually all better than the logic software.

So again, you're not stealing it because they prevent you from stealing it.

Like I said before, be as pedantic as you want, you don't live in the real world.
 

Offline ToBeFrank

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2011, 05:37:04 pm »
Like I said before, be as pedantic as you want, you don't live in the real world.

I know. I live in fairy tale land where I make enough money off my small business to afford a legit Logic.
 

Offline 8086

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2011, 05:38:11 pm »
Like I said before, be as pedantic as you want, you don't live in the real world.

I know. I live in fairy tale land where I make enough money off my small business to afford a legit Logic.

Personal attack means you automatically lose argument. Great success.
 

Offline ToBeFrank

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Re: Here's an interesting logic analyzer clone
« Reply #49 on: December 01, 2011, 05:40:19 pm »
Personal attack means you automatically lose argument. Great success.

You mean like calling someone a dummy, or saying they don't live in the real world? That kind of personal attack?
 


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