Author Topic: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??  (Read 7057 times)

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Offline GlennSpriggTopic starter

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'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« on: July 06, 2021, 10:53:52 am »
I apologize if this guy has been posted/commented on before... but I've only just seen it!. :)
He seems to speak with some level of authority/experience, in regards to modern WiFi/Bluetooth  systems.
He talks about low cost built-in chips & software in numerous common modern household appliances, on top
of the typical computers, phones, routers, smart-TV's etc. They are being set-up to not only 'talk' to each other,
but more importantly to communicate outside the home via other neighbors etc, forming an integral part of new
networking systems.  In my mind... I can sort of 'liken' it to using multiple peers etc for the likes of LiveWire/LimeWire
etc, where data is passed on, from multiple people, and collated.  I don't understand it, but maybe others can!!!

Diagonal of 1x1 square = Root-2. Ok.
Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 

Offline PlainName

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Offline PartialDischarge

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2021, 12:35:22 pm »
I don't understand why anyone would connect *any* home device, besides your computer, to the internet.
To me TV, fridge, oven, Alexa or similar spying devices, watches... are all precluded from connecting
 
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Offline Stray Electron

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2021, 05:05:00 pm »
"I don't understand why anyone would connect *any* home device, besides your computer, to the internet.'

  I agree but what makes you think that the device builder will even ask you? Or if they do ask, will they heed your decision not to be connected? 

   And if a company don't automatically connect to your device, will they still allow the NSA, FBI, DIA, FSA, local courts and local law enforcement, etc, etc to tap into your devices without a warrant?

   Or will they simply follow current software practice and make your device totally non-functional if you decline to grant them permission to constantly spy on you and sell your information?

   Even if you don't plug an Ethernet cable into your device, what's to stop them from connecting to your device wirelessly, even through one of your neighbors' wireless routers or through a neighbor's internet connected refrigerator?
 

Offline bd139

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2021, 05:11:07 pm »
If you’re targeted it’s game over anyway. You can’t go up against state actors.

The incorrect assumption here with most people is that you’re in some way important which you’re not.

If you really want to be inconspicuous then it’s better to have the technology and do your nefarious shit entirely out of band.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2021, 05:15:08 pm »
I don't understand why anyone would connect *any* home device, besides your computer, to the internet.
To me TV, fridge, oven, Alexa or similar spying devices, watches... are all precluded from connecting

This is crazy indeed, but that's not "how it works". I mean, this kind of features are NOT what people are asking to have, at least at first. They are just features that are heavily pushed by the vendors offering them (because they represent a steady and additional source of revenue - traditional sales model is just about selling a device and that's it, with this, they can keep getting cash out of a single sale for a long time.)

And as those features are pushed to the users so hard, users will even have a hard time buying devices that don't have them. End of the story. You get that whether you like it or not.

Of course, a fraction of all buyers will like those features, because that looks so modern. When enough users are hooked, vendors can dramatically cut down the cost of marketing. That's pretty much it.

But initially, the main driver for vendors is just that, to get out of the "market saturation" problem, and have a new way of ensuring further growth.

And yes, the byproducts of this trend are not all fun and shiny. They just lay the groundwork for total surveillance, while also making your household much more vulnerable to all kinds of security issues.
 

Offline RJSV

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2021, 08:46:58 pm »
Hello there!
   Ever since my 'phone' auto-connected to my sister's friend's neighbor's DESK JET printer, I've wanted to put together a satire 'skit', lampooning these newer tech/marketing dept. devices, but it isn't really that funny, and...oh, hold on; I'm now updating my personal self... OK done downloading in 10 seconds; 9 seconds.
...
   This MENU will now repeat in LATVIAN.

   Would you care to take a short survey, on my (deliberately irritating) parody on modern exasperation(s) ?

    Or press 'OPT-OUT-OX104A' for nothing, really.
 

Offline duckduck

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2021, 09:22:37 pm »
I don't understand why anyone would connect *any* home device, besides your computer, to the internet.
To me TV, fridge, oven, Alexa or similar spying devices, watches... are all precluded from connecting

...he says while holding a device (built by a huge multinational with an awful privacy record) with cameras front and back, GPS/GLONASS, compass, touchscreen, microphone, Bluetooth, WiFi, cell data, NFC, motion sensor, and on-board machine learning to sort out interesting motions / sights / sounds to report back.

A couple of years ago I bought an HP printer and after a few months, it actually refused to print because I would not let it phone home! I purchased it at Costco, so I returned it as "defective by design" and got my money back in cash. I refuse to buy from "circle" HP while they engage it that type of silly BS.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2021, 09:49:03 pm »
I don't understand why anyone would connect *any* home device, besides your computer, to the internet.
To me TV, fridge, oven, Alexa or similar spying devices, watches... are all precluded from connecting

Convenience. I like being able to adjust my thermostat from where I'm sitting on the sofa, or to confirm that I remembered to shut the heat off when I'm away on vacation or turn it back on so the house can be warmed up by the time I get home. I don't use anything that requires cloud connectivity to work though, most of my connected stuff is done through Home Assistant. For the average person who wants that convenience they are pretty much stuck with the cloud thing though.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2021, 10:18:04 pm »
The convenience is a massive selling point for me. I bought into the Apple ecosystem hard on this and it has paid itself off ten times over so far on the organisation and productivity front having automation and voice assistance available everywhere.
 

Offline eti

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2021, 01:21:40 am »
I apologize if this guy has been posted/commented on before... but I've only just seen it!. :)
He seems to speak with some level of authority/experience, in regards to modern WiFi/Bluetooth  systems.
He talks about low cost built-in chips & software in numerous common modern household appliances, on top
of the typical computers, phones, routers, smart-TV's etc. They are being set-up to not only 'talk' to each other,
but more importantly to communicate outside the home via other neighbors etc, forming an integral part of new
networking systems.  In my mind... I can sort of 'liken' it to using multiple peers etc for the likes of LiveWire/LimeWire
etc, where data is passed on, from multiple people, and collated.  I don't understand it, but maybe others can!!!



You believe they're "smart"? Not even CLOSE. They're as stupid as a box of rocks, which is what they ARE, and as short-sighted and delusional as the fairytale believers who market them to us. The "A" of "AI" is EXTREEEEEEEEMLY "A" - it's artificial in the same sense that  expectation that my cat will sing an opera to me, is artificial. It's DELUSION.
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2021, 07:13:57 pm »
The convenience is a massive selling point for me. I bought into the Apple ecosystem hard on this and it has paid itself off ten times over so far on the organisation and productivity front having automation and voice assistance available everywhere.

Same here. The Apple ecosystem is coherent and it works. And as far as I can tell, Apple hasn't tried to sell anything to me, except for maybe new Apple products.
 
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2021, 08:29:23 pm »
You believe they're "smart"? Not even CLOSE. They're as stupid as a box of rocks, which is what they ARE, and as short-sighted and delusional as the fairytale believers who market them to us. The "A" of "AI" is EXTREEEEEEEEMLY "A" - it's artificial in the same sense that  expectation that my cat will sing an opera to me, is artificial. It's DELUSION.

Of course. Well. They are not "too smart". But they are definitely too connected.
 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2021, 09:00:35 pm »
Quote
You believe they're "smart"?

Wasn't me that suggested any 'smarts' but, since you bring it up, the Oxford Dictionary of English says:

Quote
• (of a device) programmed so as to be capable of some independent action: hi-tech smart weapons.

Since these things are connecting without user direction, I think that matches the stated definition.

Perhaps you are using a different flavour of English but neglected to make that known before you rant.
 
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Offline RJSV

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2021, 03:33:55 pm »
   I see this stuff again:
   Please allow me to point out, how a little expansion of the 'mesh network' concept includes EXCLUSION, in opposition, (simultaneously). That is, while these networks (IOT) are attempting easy connection with
everything nearby, your personal use and access will often task you with a SIGN UP, CREATE AN ACCOUNT.
Of course some of this I'm OK with, but often end up with a lot of 'fluff', one more new password, more tracking of what you personally do, one more 'portal' to log into...
   So now when browsing a couple JOB postings, I come across a request to fill out some forms involving
work background history. SIGN UP, GET PASSWORD, LOG ON, you are now required (forced), in order to proceed into the particular JOB posting.
   GOOGLE is mostly OK, but being forced into creating an 'account', just to reply for a needed job, CRUD.
   Shear CRUD.
 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2021, 12:16:17 am »
They are being set-up to not only 'talk' to each other,
but more importantly to communicate outside the home via other neighbors etc, forming an integral part of new
networking systems.

That to me is a big nono. I wouldn't want any appliance I own to join automatically outside of the network I set them to directly with neighbours stuff over the street willy nilly without my permission and knowledge.

That is when I feel it no longer belongs to me but the manufacturers who set them to do that.

I question the word "Smart".
I wonder does that include, don't do anything else but the tasks advertised and intended for on the packaging.

If the appliance breaks down and I have it joined to a wired/wireless network to report faults whether it is under contract or list part numbers to order and replace the parts then that's great (I think it may live up to it's name) but anything else that I don't want it to do such as mess about with things outside the scope maybe smart for the manufacturer's for what they get out of it but not for me. I want them to simply leave it alone.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2021, 07:08:16 am »
fuck this stuff, the advanced dehumidifer I got already broke after 1 year, thank god I did not make it even more advanced with blue tooth to make it a bigger waste of money. the 80's one is still running fine, all I had to do is replace the foam and grease it 3 years ago

nothing better to cut into your budget like advanced microelectronics in simple concepts, thats what I want excessive down time, parts obsolescence, more difficult repairs and easier damage
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2021, 07:30:10 am »
fuck this stuff, the advanced dehumidifer I got already broke after 1 year, thank god I did not make it even more advanced with blue tooth to make it a bigger waste of money. the 80's one is still running fine, all I had to do is replace the foam and grease it 3 years ago

nothing better to cut into your budget like advanced microelectronics in simple concepts, thats what I want excessive down time, parts obsolescence, more difficult repairs and easier damage

It the bossiness of these things that shits me. "Unplug Charger!" or our washing machine: "Have a nice day!"

 >:(
iratus parum formica
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2021, 08:40:38 am »
I don't mind smart devices, gadgets and software provided they openly disclose up front what they intend to record, relay or broadcast, additionally they should be crystal clear about any requirments for online registration and ongoing internet data usage. For many years I was a keen gamer but remember the first game I bought which stated "Internet connection required for gameplay" written in small print on the back of the box, it was a submarine tactical game and also the last one I ever played, it put me off games altogether.

A similar thing happened recently when a mate gave me his old Fitbit smart watch, he never said anything about the requirement for me to set up an online account or that I can't even set the time without being online, way too intrusive for my liking. Also, I recently bought new mobile phone which won't work unless the Google Play App is granted access to phone, storage and messaging permissions, every phone I ever owned prior had the ability to disable Google Play altogether, fuck Google, I put the phone back in the box and won't buy another LG product.
 
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Offline Gary350z

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2021, 11:30:23 am »
I've watched a few of this guys videos. I don't see any credentials. How do you know if he's telling the truth, or if he's just some doomsday prepper person.
 
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Offline RJSV

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2021, 11:35:17 pm »
   Muttley, you got it pretty close, many of us must be disscusted.
   Today, out of nowhere, comes a SPAM TEXT saying such and such BANK has 'detected false sign-on attempts'.
  Can see a link there: The new dog's name matching the, uh, BANK's name.
  AND, oh; we've been saying that name and Google phone interrupting my Van Halen song video, to text me:
   "What was that, you say ? Could you say that again?"
    So I almost don't know what to think, but
OTHERS HERE : Stop with the the conspiracy paranoia crap.  Hey, yeah, maybe you too too quick to shut up the questions coming in. Stop and read / use judgement, not rhetorical attacks from the hip
  (Really reaching for some patience here!) Thanks
 

Offline rdl

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2021, 01:13:39 am »
Yeah, this is the thing. If they are up front and clear about it I might go along, assuming I really, really want their toy. The way this crap is usually buried in the fine print makes it obvious they are being sneaky.


I don't mind smart devices, gadgets and software provided they openly disclose up front what they intend to record, relay or broadcast, additionally they should be crystal clear about any requirments for online registration and ongoing internet data usage.
 ...
 

Offline vad

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2021, 07:11:20 am »
I actually love IoT devices connected to the Internet. I am currently on vacation thousands miles away from home. I can check that thermostats are all set to 99F, and later set them to more comfortable temperature remotely from airport upon landing. I can check that lights are off during the day and randomly switched on in the evening. I will be notified if water leakage is detected in the bathrooms or in the basement. I can enjoy Mediterranean beaches and not worry whether the basement was flooded after tropical storm Elsa passed thorough our town.

Do I worry that KGB can breach the system? Not really. SmartThings hub is isolated in a dedicated VLAN.

PS. Someone previously mentioned that TV should not be connected to the Internet. I disagree. The only thing that  the TV is good for, is watching Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Dave’s YouTube channel.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2021, 08:15:48 am »
While I agree that streaming is the only thing TVs are good for, I would *never* connect a "smart" TV to the internet. Always use an external streaming device, the experience is far better anyway.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: 'Home' devices now 'TOO' smart!!??
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2021, 08:53:42 am »
Yes smart TV is one thing I will not entertain. The propensity for it to turn into an ad delivery mechanism and privacy nightmare has been proven with  every vendor so far. As for the streaming sticks, none of them work with my Samsung dumb TV thanks to issues with HDCP so rather than prevent me from stealing the legitimate content I wanted to pay for, the HDCP forces me to steal the content to watch it instead  :palm:
 


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