Author Topic: Hot air rework station pumps - food for thought ?  (Read 4473 times)

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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Hot air rework station pumps - food for thought ?
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2021, 11:12:12 am »
Centrifugal fan design book chapter.......

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/centrifugal-fan

Backward, Radial, forward and airfoil impeller types
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Hot air rework station pumps - food for thought ?
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2021, 11:19:14 am »
An interesting scientific paper on the impeller design of a centrifugal blower.

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/236626928.pdf

These little air blowers use more science and design thought than I expected but, of course, industrial blowers need to be efficient whilst getting the required blower performance fir the task so it makes sense that the impellers would be optimised.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Hot air rework station pumps - food for thought ?
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2021, 11:26:37 am »
Of course we see variations on a theme with air blowers and Ametek have some more advanced designs such as a ‘dual turbine’ blower shown in the attached pictures.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 11:30:54 am by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Online wraper

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Re: Hot air rework station pumps - food for thought ?
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2021, 11:38:13 am »
Quick fan gets the air out from the back of impeller, not sideways. Also it's interesting that the back plate of the impeller is wider, making a gap from which the air gets out smaller. Vacuum cleaner fans I googled do not have this feature.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 11:42:05 am by wraper »
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Hot air rework station pumps - food for thought ?
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2021, 11:41:51 am »
Vacuum cleaner air pump cutaway

Yes, I was thinking of the impeller design with its shaped blades. The Quick blower certainly seems to have had thought put into its design. Hence this thread. I am interested to understand how hot air station manufacturers created the required performance from centrifugal blowers. I still wonder why they took that path rather than the equally ‘simple’ regenerative blower design.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 11:45:24 am by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Hot air rework station pumps - food for thought ?
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2021, 11:49:32 am »
Interesting..... look at this teardown of a vacuum cleaner air pump.... it has curved ‘fin’ profiles built into the casing. I wonder if that is similar to the ametek dual turbine idea ? It has a pretty standard looking impeller but exhausts air from multiple ports around the casing rather than just one.

http://www.imajeenyus.com/workshop/20160529_hoover_commutator/index.shtml
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 11:51:59 am by Fraser »
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Online wraper

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Re: Hot air rework station pumps - food for thought ?
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2021, 12:01:37 pm »
The Quick blower certainly seems to have had thought put into its design.
FWIW if you look at blower fan used in Hakko FR810B, it's trash in comparison. Way more noise produced at similar airflow. From Quick I only hear what seems to be a motor noise and noise from air coming out of the nozzle. Hakko sounds like a cheap vacuum cleaner.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 12:06:51 pm by wraper »
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Hot air rework station pumps - food for thought ?
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2021, 01:35:11 pm »
Hi Wraper,

Yes I have watched the Quick 861DW hot air station being used on the NorthridgeFIX YouTube channel and whilst you can hear the PACE fume extractor running, you do not hear the blower of the Quick station. That is a very nice unit and if I were in the market for another I would buy a genuine Quick 861DW  :-+ Sadly there are fakes that can make obtaining a genuine Quick product more challenging. I do not mind seeing clones with different makers names, but the fakes pretending to be Quick products are a real PITA.

Fraser
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Hot air rework station pumps - food for thought ?
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2021, 01:41:32 pm »
The HAKKO FR810B blower ..... it looks the part but, as Wraper has stated, it is the internal design that matters !

Not a cheap blower at $80 either.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Hot air rework station pumps - food for thought ?
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2021, 10:01:40 pm »
Well the AMETEK blowers arrived. Large motor with a relatively compact blower unit. These little units spin at up to 22000 RPM ! I tested the units and they work from 4V to 12V with 4V providing a nice gentle flow of air and 12V creates a screaming banshee of a blower more suited to leaf blower applications  :scared: The open port of the blower is already too powerful an air flow for SMT work at 6V operation but I thought I would do some really crude tests on this powerful little unit with regard to creating back pressure at the output port by partially covering it with my finger. The results were interesting and tally with what we have previously discussed in this thread. Bear in mind that the AMETEK blower is rated to produce over 700l/m at 10V with a 2.5A draw.

I powered the blower with 10V and she spun up to ~18000 RPM and a powerful jet of air was produced at the output port. Trying to reduce the output port diameter with a finger met with decent resistance from the air flow. It also created a powerful smaller jet of air. Starting from ‘off’ with my finger partially covering the output port resulted in very little pressure against my finger and a far reduced jet of air coming out of the smaller port. The blower did not ‘like’ the back pressure at all. I reduced the voltage on the fan to see how it behaved and proved that when running ‘open port’ of around 15mm diameter, it spun up well and created decent pressure. Partial obstruction of the output port progressively reduced the blowers performance from ‘cold start’ and virtually destroyed its ability to create decent pressure.

To me this tallies with not only the AMETEK data sheet but also the behaviour of the hot air stations that use such centrifugal blower designs. The blowers in those hot air stations are large and powerful yet produce only 120l/m air flow when running at high RPM. It would appear that the blowers are ‘suffering’ from ‘inadequate’ output port diameter influences on their ability to create pressure and flow. Now before readers think this is a criticism, it is not. It would appear that the manufacturers of the hot air stations realise how the centrifugal blower will respond to reduction of the output port diameter when SMT rework nozzles are fitted and proportioned the blowers size and performance to compensate. As a result, the powerful blower does not produce its ‘normal’ ~800 to 1200 l/m but a more appropriate ~120l/m maximum due to back pressure effects on the centrifugal blower operation. It does produce the required air movement and pressure for the hot air workstation but the pressure and flow is influenced by the output nozzle size. The smallest nozzle sizes will likely create an ‘interesting’ air flow within the blower that almost destroys its ability to create much pressure at the output port but the size and power of the blower still creates enough for the task at hand. I found it interesting to see that if the AMETEK blower was allowed to ‘spin up’ to a decent speed and then had its output port partially obscured, it provided more pressure than if it was started with the output port already obstructed. I presume this has something to do with the effects of back pressure on the impellers ability to create the best air movement within the blower housing.

This has been a very interesting little experiment and it was nice to see the centrifugal fans response to output port size and back pressure that tallied with technical papers that I have read on the topic. Basically, centrifugal blowers are great at shifting large volumes of air and can create pressure provided the output port flow is unobstructed. Such blowers can be ‘abused’ by obstructing the output port provided the effects are understood and managed  :-+

Fraser
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 10:14:56 pm by Fraser »
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Online wraper

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Re: Hot air rework station pumps - food for thought ?
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2021, 10:12:49 pm »
It would appear that the manufacturers of the hot air stations realise how the centrifugal blower will respond to reduction of the output port diameter when SMT rework nozzles are fitted and proportioned the blowers size and performance to compensate. As a result, the powerful blower does not produce its ‘normal’ ~800 to 1200 l/m but a more appropriate ~120l/m maximum due to back pressure effects on the centrifugal blower operation.
Blower can be optimized for high static pressure or high airflow. Just like axial fans. Your AMETEK is optimized for high airflow with little concern about static pressure. My assumption is it has a lot of short blades, versus just a few long blades in Quick blower.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 11:18:52 pm by wraper »
 
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Hot air rework station pumps - food for thought ?
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2021, 10:20:07 pm »
Wraper,

Your comment supports what we originally thought, the designer of the quick hot air station did not just ‘throw’ a fan into the casing and hoped it worked.... it would appear that some decent thought went into the blowers performance and behaviour when working into a small cross section output port. I personally would not hesitate to buy a genuine Quick 861DW as it receives very good reviews from users. I would think carefully about cheaper clones however as they may have just chucked in a similar looking blower that is not ‘tuned’ to the task.

Fraser
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Offline suryaputhra

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Re: Hot air rework station pumps - food for thought ?
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2022, 12:07:47 pm »
Wonderful tech info on a subtle topic which actually plays a major role in work.
 


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