Hot air stations - Aoyue vs Blackjack / All-in-one vs separate units?

[Murphy]

So I'm thinking of buying one of these cheap hot air stations...

Aoyue 2702A+, Blackjack BK6000, or some another arrangement?  
They're just for home use and the most important thing I need is the desoldering tool but it's about time to get a hot air station as well.

Further complicating things, buying separate units also seems very competitive with the price of an all in one.
For example:
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9751 (hot air w/ suction pen) & http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9750 (desoldering) totals $240.

How do you get the most bang for your buck acquiring tools like this?
Is there an advantage to having separate units when you're not depending on it as your only soldering iron?

[Hypernova]

With separate units its easier to replace if you want upgrades or break down. But with integrated you get a space advantage like what I have on my tiny desk:

[Murphy]

Seen that picture in an old thread I dug up. Looks nice 

[Mechatrommer]

even though i have 2 in 1 soldering+hot air station, i'll vote for separate unit.

[TopherTheME]

When it comes to having a desoldering station with a hot air station, I think a 2 in 1 units is fine. I think its better to have a separate 1 in 1 station for a soldering iron though as its usually used a lot more than anything else.

[Murphy]

Are the cheap machines even worth it for the desoldering tool? They seem really cheaply made and I'm not finding much good information on Google.

[joelby]

I got a "Ständig 898D" soldering/hot air tool from eBay. You can find them with a range of brand names. Thanks to a recent PayPal cashback promotion, it cost a mere AUD 60. For this sort of money I don't think you can really go wrong. If you need to use a tool eight hours a day, you can probably afford a better one! Anyway, I have no complaints with it at all. The soldering iron is actually really nice. I haven't used the hot air bit for any actual work but I can't think what could go wrong when it comes to blowing hot air. It makes a very inexpensive second iron, which I'm sure will come in handy for rework - my days of accidentally snapping components in half are over! I feel a bit sad about using it as my primary iron - my Dick Smith soldering station was a birthday present from my parents about 18 years ago and I've been using it at least once a week ever since.

[cybergibbons]

I can't think what could go wrong when it comes to blowing hot air.

Fire seems to be the issue that some people have.

[dimlow]

My vote would be a separate hot air and many irons with a selection of tips already mounted. I don't want to wait for the iron to cool before i change tips. I have a 2 in 1 a KADA cheapy, had it a few years and it works well. If you look on youtube there is a Factory video of KADA, look closer and you will see that they not only make KADA but Aoyue and several other brands too. From looking at the Blackjack, that is also from the same factory! there is noting to choose from them.

[Mechatrommer]

My vote would be a separate hot air and many irons with a selection of tips already mounted. I don't want to wait for the iron to cool before i change tips. I have a 2 in 1 a KADA cheapy, had it a few years and it works well. If you look on youtube there is a Factory video of KADA, look closer and you will see that they not only make KADA but Aoyue and several other brands too. From looking at the Blackjack, that is also from the same factory! there is noting to choose from them.

pretty much we are same here, except our opinion on KADA. you see, mine is just several months, and it started playing up (the iron only, not hot air), sometime it cannot sense the temp correctly and fail to reach the set temp. workaround? bang it on the bench or punch the unit several time on it face or "masturb" the connector several time! then it fixed that. maybe it got loose connection somewhere, havent had any time to inspect carefully as it's not really serious, but sometime i got sick as well. i thought i'm gonna hack it someday! put my own PIC and program or something.

so for serious purpose, i dont recommend KADA. but as my previous recommendation, its the same as dimlow... get separate unit. so since you have mentioned that, here is the KADA. noticed the sticker i put on? i have to put that coz the switches are on the wrong side, the iron is on my right, but its switch is on the left, so i have to put the sticker to remind me, ergonomics sux! i onced opened the unit try to "switch" the switches, but its not as easy as i thought and note the tape around the hot air? its been broken opened, veru poor assembly and durability .

i also have a single soldering iron (hakko presto, second pic) its been years with me, and how it works? harder than rock! if i want to give rating for both, i'll give 2in1 KADA 5/10 mostly due to its iron unreliability. and the hakko is 9/10, minus one only due to it doesnt have any temperature control, but has been 150% reliable and 10th time cheaper than KADA!

[dimlow]

@shafi, my Switches are the other way round! I mean physically. on is up off is down! Air is on the right iron on the left switch

One thing i found with the kada that really annoys me is the soldering iron lead length, far to short. I find im always having to move my work around to suit the iron, not the other way. One day i will get round to making it longer.

[Mechatrommer]

One day i will get round to making it longer.

use SizePro System! dont click the link! its a scam!
anyway, the kada is a bit of a sux! maybe my switches got turned upside down, but still the temp control knobs and connectors got the same problem. physically the hot air is on left (the hot air and its connector), but the knob is on the right, vice versa. So i have to play "criss cross" on this unit. and IIRC, the switches and knobs are directly connected to the pcb inside, there is no way to mod that unless we make a new pcb for it. what model do you have? mine is 852AD+ (as in the picture).

[dimlow]

it only the on off switches i was talking about, the rest is the same. its a KADA 852D+

[Zyvek]

Aoyue 2702A+, Blackjack BK6000, or some another arrangement?  
...
Is there an advantage to having separate units when you're not depending on it as your only soldering iron?

I have the BK6000 and I'm pretty happy with it overall, and the price was right.  

If cost is an issue then you get all three tools for a good price, but for efficiency I'd rather have a dedicated desoldering station.  I'm actually considering either getting a second one unit to leave it setup for desoldering or one of the cheaper desoldering models.

Another annoyance is that keeping the sponge clear of solder can be a chore if you are doing a big desoldering job (usually if I'm rehavesting parts).

There are actually times when I prefer to use my radio shack desoldering iron (the one with the built in suction bulb) because you don't have to stop to clean the sponge.  However it takes much longer to heat up and the tip is a bit bigger than I need at times.

On the BK6000 the iron and hot air gun can be used at the same time (only the pencil iron and desoldering gun share outlets) so for assembly it's all good.


Hope this helps.

[kd5jha]

 I bought a used Metcal RF Iron off of Ebay and it was a combo solder/desolder system, one of the older models. Loved that system...best iron I ever had, can change tips instantly with their little rubber pad to just pull the tip out and drop it into the holder. Tips are not cheap, and neither is the station... Cost me about $500US used, with about 12 tips. Worked perfectly for about 3 years, then the desolder pump started running nonstop, must have a leak somewhere...now I just unplug it when not in constant use. Since it has almost instant heatup this is not a problem.

Called Metcal about service and they told me that my unit was no longer made because they had determined that having both units in one case caused shortened lifespan due to excess heat from dual power supplies... makes sense to me.

That being said, no conventional iron I've ever used can touch these babies...only downside is that you need  whole arsenal of tips if you are doing lots of different types of soldering. That being said, 90% of my work is done with a 700 degree 1-2mm chisel tip, most of my others just sit in the rack for a rainy day.

I forgot to mention that my station does not support hot air, but the newer ones do...if I had about $1200us I might upgrade

RMG

[metalphreak]

I've had no issues with my Kada 852AD+. The switch thing is annoying though because I also have the hot air gun setup on the left. However, mine has threaded holes on both sides to mount the hotair holster so you could just move it to the other side so it makes more 'sense' when you go to flip switches. For hobby use I think they are perfect. Mine came with spare heater elements for both the iron and the hot air gun. The iron element has the temp sensor in it (my spare has 4 wires on it) so I'd say yours is failing if its not getting up to temp.

If you need one for professional or frequent use, you might want to buy a more expensive, better built unit, but I am happy with mine for what I need to do

[Mechatrommer]

@shafi, my Switches are the other way round! I mean physically. on is up off is down! Air is on the right iron on the left switch

IIRC, i've turned the switches the other way around coz in my country, pushing the bottom part of the switch and let the top part protrudes means, switched "ON". for me the KADA is one heck of the "upside down" UI. but i cannot get it right to left (move the iron switch to the right and air gun switch to the left) as in my previous post, its the difficult part.

[Murphy]

I've been looking around at a lot of stuff and I'm liking this Xytronic gear. Seems like a good balance of cost/quality.

This one seems about right for me http://www.xytronic-usa.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=211
Has a de-soldering tool and optional hot air pencil....perfect. Can be found in the $200 range as well.

The larger station and the hot air blower look great too.

I hear a lot about how much the de-soldering tool on the ayoue/blackjack jams all the time.

[Mechatrommer]

when you bought it, pls do me a favor reviewing the effectiveness of the desoldering pump, is it powerful? or just a toy

[Murphy]

Definitely will post about it =) .... whenever it is that I finally do buy one 

[scrat]

As soon as all the ordered stuff arrives, I'll post some photos and a my impressions on a Aoyue hot air station + hot plate here (an older thread about this topic):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1468.msg19436#msg19436

[Murphy]

Check out this monster http://www.assemblyoutfitters.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=3546 I think it just popped up in the last few days. o_0

[joelby]

Scratch what I said about liking the 898D's soldering iron - while trying to solder wick something and putting lateral pressure on the tip, I broke the heating element, which seems to be a load bearing part of the iron. They're about $13 to replace, which isn't too bad. I can't fault the hot air part so far, though!