Author Topic: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?  (Read 4588 times)

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Offline jmelson

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #75 on: March 18, 2019, 07:59:42 pm »
The other thing which may just be a matter of me learning a bit more, but when something breaks in Windows I can usually manage to fix it. With Linux on numerous occasions I have spent *hours* troubleshooting only to eventually give up and reinstall the OS. Most recently my Plex server crashed and somehow corrupted the root partition so the OS wouldn't fully boot. I tried everything I could think of, eventually gave up and reinstalled.
Well, seems the opposite for me.  Only once have I had to reinstall Linux, and that was after I had been seriously messing in internals for some reason, and I got it totally messed up, to where I couldn't even install over the existing system, but had to wipe the disk.  But, I knew I had seriously messed around in it trying to FORCE some oddball drivers to load into the wrong version of the OS.
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Then there is hardware support, I have a scanner that only has Windows drivers available. I used to have a printer that only had Windows drivers.
I did have a really off-brand scanner that required a special firmware file to be loaded.  I think it was such an oddball that it needed special attention even under Windows.
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Then things like playing DVDs used to be unnecessarily difficult or impossible, only fixed when someone managed to crack the encryption. Services like Netflix for the longest time simply wouldn't work on Linux, I believe that has changed but I "fixed" it by dumping Netflix, going back to buying used discs and ripping them onto a Plex server. Technically I think ripping the discs is illegal because it circumvents the DRM but I own the discs so screw it, I'll do as I please.
I know my daughter watches Netflix on her Linux system.

Jon
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #76 on: March 18, 2019, 08:00:53 pm »
It's what happened to me and it happens to others. If there was a problem it was there when I got it.

:horse:
Did you buy your computer with the dual boot installation you referred to earlier? If it was a problem from the beginning, why haven't you claimed warranty or support?
 

Offline apis

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #77 on: March 18, 2019, 09:05:09 pm »
I'm speaking on authority of a sample group of several thousand Windows 10 deployments in various configurations and environments. How big is your sample group?
Home users?

Did you buy your computer with the dual boot installation you referred to earlier?
No, how many companies sell computers with Linux as a dual-boot option?

IIRC windows distributors have to make a deal with MS not to sell other operating systems or else they have to pay much more for each windows licence which would put them out of business. At least that is how it used to be.

I have administrated both windows and Linux machines professionally for many years, although it was some time ago so I haven't had to deal with windows 10. If I don't touch the windows disk then from windows perspective the only hint it's a dual boot system is that there is another disk installed that lacks a windows partition. I fail to see how dual boot can make updates install slower?

If it was a problem from the beginning, why haven't you claimed warranty or support?
Because I believe it was a problem with windows 10 and I'm convinced it was "working as intended". I also use windows very rarely and didn't really need it on my laptop so might as well use the disk space for linux. I still have a windows 7 installation on my desktop (also dual boot). It doesn't have these problems. So rather than going through the problem of contacting support (which usually can't solve problems I can't solve myself, unless it's the hardware) I deleted it. Support would just have told me to do a factory restore, not prepared to jump through all their hoops, would have been days of work likely for nothing.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #78 on: March 18, 2019, 09:24:51 pm »
Home users?

No, how many companies sell computers with Linux as a dual-boot option?

IIRC windows distributors have to make a deal with MS not to sell other operating systems or else they have to pay much more for each windows licence which would put them out of business. At least that is how it used to be.

I have administrated both windows and Linux machines professionally for many years, although it was some time ago so I haven't had to deal with windows 10. If I don't touch the windows disk then from windows perspective the only hint it's a dual boot system is that there is another disk installed that lacks a windows partition. I fail to see how dual boot can make updates install slower?

Because I believe it was a problem with windows 10 and I'm convinced it was "working as intended". I also use windows very rarely and didn't really need it on my laptop so might as well use the disk space for linux. I still have a windows 7 installation on my desktop (also dual boot). It doesn't have these problems. So rather than going through the problem of contacting support (which usually can't solve problems I can't solve myself, unless it's the hardware) I deleted it. Support would just have told me to do a factory restore, not prepared to jump through all their hoops, would have been days of work likely for nothing.
You're seeing something which isn't reasonable behaviour after making a significant change to your system and you're convinced it was broken out of the box and by design? Assuming what you're seeing is expected behaviour isn't exactly the safe bet.
 

Offline apis

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #79 on: March 18, 2019, 09:28:36 pm »
It's not a significant change. How could it affect the update speed? If I had messed around with windows I would agree with you, but it was practically untouched.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #80 on: March 18, 2019, 09:33:20 pm »
It's not a significant change. How could it affect the update speed? If I had messed around with windows I would agree with you, but it was practically untouched.
For example, if you screwed up, you might get misaligned partition.
 

Offline apis

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #81 on: March 18, 2019, 09:35:53 pm »
It's not a significant change. How could it affect the update speed? If I had messed around with windows I would agree with you, but it was practically untouched.
For example, if you screwed up, you might get misaligned partition.
Except, as I said, I installed Linux on a separate disk. The windows disk was never touched. Windows doesn't play nice with other OS's so it's often the safest option.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #82 on: March 18, 2019, 09:39:47 pm »
It's not a significant change. How could it affect the update speed? If I had messed around with windows I would agree with you, but it was practically untouched.
For example, if you screwed up, you might get misaligned partition.
Except, as I said, I installed Linux on a separate disk. The windows disk was never touched. Windows doesn't play nice with other OS's so it's often the safest option.
What about small system reserved partition?
 

Offline apis

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #83 on: March 18, 2019, 09:47:35 pm »
What about small system reserved partition?
Linux was installed on a new SSD disk that didn't come with the computer, everything else was left untouched. All the systems partitions, partition tables, boot loaders etc was left untouched. The only system change was to change the boot disk order in bios when switching between linux and windows.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #84 on: March 18, 2019, 09:53:42 pm »
It's not a significant change. How could it affect the update speed? If I had messed around with windows I would agree with you, but it was practically untouched.
Adding a second OS to a system is not a significant change and the unreasonable behaviour you see is expected and by design although the problem is rarely reported. Do you understand how increasingly unlikely that all sounds? We don't know what was already broken or what you possibly broke yourself. All we see is a list of exceptions you claim are the norm, to then tells us the norm is terrible. At this point you really have to consider the norm may not be at fault, but what you're seeing simply isn't the norm.
 

Offline apis

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #85 on: March 18, 2019, 10:03:42 pm »
At this point you really have to consider the norm may not be at fault, but what you're seeing simply isn't the norm.
If I was the only one seeing it, alas I am not.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #86 on: March 18, 2019, 10:15:00 pm »
If I was the only one seeing it, alas I am not.
Apparently this one other guy you're reporting about has similar problems and probably a few more you're going to Google search right now. Meanwhile, many thousands of other systems in various configurations don't have these problems. But somehow you're sure the unreasonable behaviour you're seeing is a systemic problem, despite seemingly not doing much to investigate or mitigate the issue.
 

Offline apis

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #87 on: March 18, 2019, 10:23:45 pm »
Apparently this one other guy you're reporting about has similar problems and probably a few more you're going to Google search right now. Meanwhile, many thousands of other systems in various configurations don't have these problems. But somehow you're sure the unreasonable behaviour you're seeing is a systemic problem, despite seemingly not doing much to investigate or mitigate the issue.
Now you are making things up. I never said it was one other guy, I have talked to many others, and read reports by others experiencing the same. I don't have to google to find examples since (as I've already pointed out before) another person has mentioned it in this tread. That said, most windows users probably use windows every day and don't have to wait a long time to install a backlog of updates.

You can't do much to mitigate the issue. Windows just lets you know it's updating and you have to wait until it's done. That's the problem.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 10:29:49 pm by apis »
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #88 on: March 18, 2019, 10:45:13 pm »
Now you are making things up. I never said it was one other guy, I have talked to many others, and read reports by others experiencing the same. I don't have to google to find examples since (as I've already pointed out before) another person has mentioned it in this tread.

You can't do much to mitigate the issue. Windows just lets you know it's updating and you have to wait until it's done. That's the problem.
I'm not saying the issue is unique, but I can confidently and reasonably well substantiated state it certainly is rare. The problem is that you outright refuse to admit the problem may not be the norm and could be on your end, and you've done nothing to investigate or fix your issue under the fatalist guise of it being what it is. The possibility that you may have missed something, as was the case with having to use Windows with a Microsoft account, isn't even considered. You can lead a donkey to water, but you can't make it drink.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 10:49:01 pm by Mr. Scram »
 

Offline apis

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #89 on: March 18, 2019, 11:02:51 pm »
I'm not saying the issue is unique, but I can confidently and reasonably well substantiated state it certainly is rare. The problem is that you outright refuse to admit the problem may not be the norm and could be on your end, and you've done nothing to investigate or fix your issue under the fatalist guise of it being what it is. The possibility that you may have missed something, as was the case with having to use Windows with a Microsoft account, isn't even considered.
I've admitted it's a possibility, but I don't believe that was the case. If you don't have any compelling argument why it was likely a problem on my end, then there is no reason for me to change my mind just because you say so.

You don't know what I did to investigate the issue, all I've said about that is that I didn't contact support since it's usually a waste of time in my experience.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

You can lead a donkey to water, but you can't make it drink.
The donkey died a long time ago.
:horse:
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #90 on: March 18, 2019, 11:07:59 pm »
I've admitted it's a possibility, but I don't believe that was the case. If you don't have any compelling argument why it was likely a problem on my end, then there is no reason for me to change my mind just because you say so.

You don't know what I did to investigate the issue, all I've said about that is that I didn't contact support since it's usually a waste of time in my experience.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

The donkey died a long time ago.
:horse:
The dead donkey is an apt comparison. No amount of reason or water will ever make it drink. It'll just emit a foul stink.  ;D
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 11:25:16 pm by Mr. Scram »
 

Offline soldar

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #91 on: March 26, 2019, 12:29:17 pm »
Except, as I said, I installed Linux on a separate disk. The windows disk was never touched. Windows doesn't play nice with other OS's so it's often the safest option.
Yup. I have Win 7 on one disk and Linux Mint on another disk and never the twain shall meet. Only one disk is connected at any one time (usually Linux). I have heard too many horror stories. No way I am giving Windows any chance to access the Linux disk. No way!

OTOH, I was trying trying to run Sketchup 8 with WINE. Asked in the Mint forum and was given several replies with possible ways to fix it but after spending a couple hours on this the errors were just getting more cryptic and more in quantity so I just gave up. And I consider myself lucky that I didn't break anything in the process.  It seems very often in Linux I end up fighting cryptic and esoteric errors and almost always end up giving up. but even if I could succeed it is just not worth the time and effort.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 

Offline apis

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #92 on: March 26, 2019, 01:31:28 pm »
Wine is a bit hit and miss. I usually use playonlinux which is a graphical front end to wine that lets you run applications with a specific version of wine. I've gotten success in maybe 7 out of 10 times with wine. Windows apps weren't really meant to run in Linux, when they do it's pretty amazing, but it's not so strange if they don't. The easiest way to run windows apps is to install windows in a virtual machine. (Wine was created before virtual machines were practically usable).
 

Offline soldar

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #93 on: March 27, 2019, 12:49:36 pm »
I guess my point is that in Linux the smallest thing can turn into a nightmare with no end.

- I can't get Sketchup to work

- You need to check, install, remove, debug and recheck any and all dependencies.

- What does that even mean and how would I do it?

- Blah, blah, blah......

Several hours of work later:

- OK, I figured all that out and it is done but I still cannot get Sketchup to work. I am getting error "deeda.dll corrupted, not found or not needed".

- Oh, why don't you try installing Winetricks?

- OK, after much work I managed to install Winetricks. Now instead of a single error I get a scrolling list of errors that goes on and on scrolling. I give up.


That is my experience with Linux. If you want to do anything to install or configure things you really need to know the inner workings of Linux and how to tinker with things under the hood.

Sometimes, after many hours of tinkering, I might get something to work or half-work but I could not tell you what I did or how to do it again. Very frustrating.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 
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Offline grifftech

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #94 on: March 27, 2019, 02:22:57 pm »
windows 10 Enterprise has less bloat
 

Offline Beamin

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Re: How did you clean up/ debloat windows 10?
« Reply #95 on: March 27, 2019, 08:52:00 pm »
...by installing Windows 7. :P

If you really must have the latest, I hear Server 2019 is relatively bloat-free.

 :)

This is what gets me, if I had a desktop that would be easy and if I crash it just pop in the windows DVD. But this is a Microsoft surface pro laptop (Worth the $1400 with a titanium alloy shell instead of plastic and ridiculous color and screen resolution like 4k) with all kinds of special drivers like the touch pad screen wifi etc. I imagine the "detach button" has all sorts of software to make that work. Since this is my only thing to do I can't risk fucking it up (some days I can't get out of bed and staring at the ceiling for 12 will drive you mad).


I hate how you can't uninstall things like xbox or cortana. I seriously doubt you could get this type of computer to work with Linux. From my raspberry pi experience there is a lot of messing around to make even that simple thing work 100%.


Thanks for all the replies I'm still reading this whole thread. 
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