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How does the electron make a photon in an antenna?

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T3sl4co1l:
Yeesh, don't feed the nutters please

jasonRF:
I don't think the concept of photons is helping anyone here better understand how an antenna actually works.  Does the OP have a solid understanding of radiation as explained by classical electrodynamics?   That is the place to start. There is a reason why physicists typically first learn classical electrodynamics at both the undergraduate and graduate level before learning QED (where they learn about field quantization).   And there is a reason why EEs almost never learn QED, even in graduate school when we often do lots of esoteric stuff (although I did know EEs that took graduate-level quantum mechanics classes, which were prerequisites for QED).   In any case that is even remotely practical, adding corrections/concepts from QED (photons) to a description of radiation from an antenna is probably just as useful as adding quantum corrections/concepts to a description of how a football moves after being kicked. 

And I agree with T3sl4co1l (although apparently not enough to refrain from posting!).  The crackpottery index is high on this thread...

jason

aetherist:

--- Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on January 31, 2023, 09:41:39 pm ---Keep in mind that QED describes what happens, not how it happens. There's nothing in the theory, or any other theory, that describes how an electron converts excess energy into a photon, just that it does.
--- End quote ---
There is one theory – my elekton theory – that describes how an elektron electon makes a photon.
Elektons are photons that hug a nucleus & hence orbit the nucleus.
There is no such  thing as an electron (eg a hard little nut) orbiting a nucleus (like the Moon orbiting Earth).
Hence an atom absorbs a photon when the photon becomes an elektron, ie when the photon is captured by the atom.
And an atom emits a photon when an elektron breaks free of a nucleus. This is the valence energy orbital stuff.
In essence -- an elektron (a semi confined photon) becomes a (free) photon when it breaks away from the nucleus (& vice versa). No smoke & mirrors needed.

So, lets look at the OP…….. "We know how an electron makes a photon in an LED. It jump from a higher orbital to a lower one emitting a photon. But in an antenna its occupying the same valence  just with a different nucleus each hop.  How is the energy transferred to a radio frequency photon?" ......

I answered this yesterday – i said that a radio signal is not made of photons.
An electron or elektron hopping along in or on an antenna from atom to atom would i suppose emit a changing em radiation field, a kind of mini radio signal, but all of thems mini signals would tend to cancel, tending to give zero radio signal.
If the hopping was a forced kind of hopping, eg giving a sinusoidal wave of hopping, then i suppose that the nett radio signal would not be zero – but that signal would be an em radiation, not photons.

A number of posters here have said that there is no real difference between  a photon & an em energy packet – but i don’t agree – em radiation is emitted by photons – em radiation is a part of every photon, but a photon is not a part of every em radiation packet.
Actually i can put it another way – a photon is an energy packet, but there is no such thing as an em radiation packet.
[edit][i just realised 2feb2023][if em radiation duznt kum in quantum packets then QED can not help with the math]

SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: aetherist on January 31, 2023, 10:56:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 31, 2023, 07:16:38 pm ---Since time doesn't exist, neither does acceleration. So accelerated particles are just for the birds. ;D

--- End quote ---
I agree with Einstein that time is an illusion (albeit his illusion is different to mine).
--- End quote ---

I don't think you have understood what Einstein meant by that.
His main point was about time being relative, not about time not existing. Which was obviously his main topic at the time, and while relativity sounds familiar these days, it certainly didn't when he came up with that.

And, as relative as we have understood "time" to be, we still haven't proven that it could ever go backwards.

QM may elicit some pretty mind-blowing concepts of its own about time too, but as you admitted, you don't understand QM. And to be honest, anyone claiming they do is probably lying anyway.


--- Quote from: aetherist on January 31, 2023, 10:56:57 pm ---Time duznt exist.  What exists is ticking. Everything that we see & feel in our world/universe is a process, & all processes have a (natural) ticking.

--- End quote ---

Time is just a way of expressing changes. Without a concept of time, there is no change. All events would have happened simultaneously, in which case there would be no event to speak of.
And as I said, no time, no acceleration. Pretty much nothing, in fact.

As with most of your other concepts, that are actually not original as they can be read here and there in dodgy books and papers, this is just trying to come up with words that would allegedly be a revolution but are just words.

A "tick" is just the manifestation of time. Use words as you like though, if that makes you feel better. Since time doesn't exist in your head, I just wrote that before you ever posted and I'm not even replying to you.

aetherist:

--- Quote from: T3sl4co1l on February 01, 2023, 12:06:06 am ---Yeesh, don't feed the nutters please
--- End quote ---
The nutters are the QEDnuts.
Some QEDnuts did admit that QED duznt explain how -- & the OP was about how.
#24 by Vrile was goodish.  He/she said that when an electron changes direction it emits em radiation (but did not say that em radiation was photon).
#32  RoGeorge said much the same -- dancing electrons produce a ripple of em radiation, & these can be called photons.
#36 T35l4co1l is interesting...........
........... "BTW, note that the antenna is only a guide for the EM field.  The EM field extends from within the cable (or waveguide, or whatever), through the radiating structure, out into space.  If you wish to use photons in your reasoning, then they can be present in all these locations. Ultimate photon interactions (creation and absorption) -- not just scattering, occurs at sources and sinks.  Really, anything with resistance, or equivalent resistance. Tim"........

My elektons are photons. So, ït looks to me that u might be agreeing with me (ie my elekton elekticity theory) when u say "then they can be present in all these locations.

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