Author Topic: How is Chipageddon affecting you?  (Read 272451 times)

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Offline coppice

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #400 on: December 08, 2021, 05:53:22 pm »
[...]
3D printing of homes could cause some deflation. I don't think the space race will.

A lot of a home's price is the price of the land it sits on...   3D print that! :D
Mark Twain famously said "Buy land. They're not making it any more.". I assume he never visited Hong Kong, or The Netherlands, or East Anglia in the UK.
 
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Offline Kasper

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #401 on: December 08, 2021, 06:11:14 pm »
[...]
3D printing of homes could cause some deflation. I don't think the space race will.

A lot of a home's price is the price of the land it sits on...   3D print that! :D

And that price is based on where that piece of land is located!

(Also we can "3D print" the walls, but the rest of the details that make a house cannot be manufactured like that. You know: plumbing, cabinets, doors, wiring, flooring, windows, all the little things.)

Windows?  First off, good luck finding some in stock.  Second off, they'll probably be banned soon because they aren't great insulators, they increase HVAC/energy use. [/sarcasm]

Where I live land price goes down 10x for a 10min drive from town.  100x for a 1hr drive.  And yet, so many people demand to live in the big cities, whilst complaining about the cost, ignoring the fact they are helping drive up the cost by refusing to look elsewhere.

In town, the cost of land is about $50/sqft and new houses are about $250/sqft. 
 

Offline coppice

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #402 on: December 08, 2021, 08:00:36 pm »
Windows?  First off, good luck finding some in stock.  Second off, they'll probably be banned soon because they aren't great insulators, they increase HVAC/energy use. [/sarcasm]
Whilst banning windows is unlikely, many places have had window taxes in the past, limiting people's enthusiasm for them. Maybe they'll make a come back. Even without specific window taxes, it costs more to install a window than to build a similar area of wall. In the UK a huge number of newly built houses have far less window area than most people would like.

 

Offline IDEngineer

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #403 on: December 08, 2021, 09:08:37 pm »
That's just crazy, telling people how many windows they can have. Meanwhile we have the medical community saying people need more light, and more natural light. And the mental health community saying views of the outdoors are important.

And didn't some university dorm building design just get criticized recently for being windowless? It's impossible to keep track of what is considered politically acceptable on a given day.

Here's an idea: If it's structurally sound, let people build what they want. If you like windows (or believe they're important to your mental/physical health), put 'em in. If you focus on reducing your monthly HVAC bills and prefer the hermit lifestyle, do that instead. In both cases the individual is taking the risk that their choices will be found desireable by some future buyer, and that too should be their choice. Let the building codes and inspectors make certain the building won't collapse on its inhabitants, and otherwise let folks build what they want. Live and let live!
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #404 on: December 08, 2021, 09:12:06 pm »
By the way, the infamous Window Tax was back in 1696, during the reign of William III, as an indirect tax on wealthy subjects who lived in big houses.
Of course, it led to unhealthy living conditions as the taxpayers took to bricking up their windows.
Worse, since it was levied on landlords, they proceeded to brick up windows on tenements of unwealthy renters in urban areas.
Cooler heads eventually prevailed, and the tax was repealed--in 1851.
see https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/towncountry/towns/tyne-and-wear-case-study/about-the-group/housing/window-tax/
« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 09:15:54 pm by TimFox »
 
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Offline IDEngineer

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #405 on: December 08, 2021, 09:39:43 pm »
Then in my defense, I will say that it's a sorry comment on today's state of affairs that it was even conceivable such a thing might be believable these days.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #406 on: December 09, 2021, 04:14:28 pm »
By the way, the infamous Window Tax was back in 1696, during the reign of William III, as an indirect tax on wealthy subjects who lived in big houses.
Of course, it led to unhealthy living conditions as the taxpayers took to bricking up their windows.
Worse, since it was levied on landlords, they proceeded to brick up windows on tenements of unwealthy renters in urban areas.
Cooler heads eventually prevailed, and the tax was repealed--in 1851.
see https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/towncountry/towns/tyne-and-wear-case-study/about-the-group/housing/window-tax/
Although that tax went away a long time ago, its effects are still felt. This village has a very large modern house, built in the style of a 19th century house. It was built with what look like bricked up windows, I assume for a period effect.
 

Offline IDEngineer

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #407 on: December 09, 2021, 04:23:26 pm »
Yet another example of government intrusiveness having negative consequences. In today's environment of ever-increasing nationalized health care, the health effects caused by insufficient fresh air and sunlight (mentioned multiple times in that earlier link) would impose even more burden upon taxpayers. Such legislative nonsense would be laughable if it didn't have such negative impacts on actual people. And politicians haven't stopped, despite countless documented examples going back centuries.

It could be argued that the ultimate blame falls on we, the voters, who unfathomably continue to (re)elect such politicians. Voters truly do get the government - and the consequences - they deserve. {/rant}
 

Offline Kasper

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #408 on: December 09, 2021, 06:18:37 pm »
It's been a real pain finding IMUs over the last year.  For my latest build they are specially hard to find.  None of the distributors I'm familiar with have any of the 3 models I want or even post lead times.  Meanwhile, win source electronics says they have over 700,000 of them! 

Why does no one have IMUs but win source is holding ~$3M worth of them?  Almost 10x more stock than all the other stock listed on octopart combined.

Not familiar with win source but found some interesting info in the product page:
"fake threat in the open market: 88 pct." 
"supply and demand status: balance"
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #409 on: December 09, 2021, 06:46:36 pm »
Yet another example of government intrusiveness having negative consequences. In today's environment of ever-increasing nationalized health care, the health effects caused by insufficient fresh air and sunlight (mentioned multiple times in that earlier link) would impose even more burden upon taxpayers. Such legislative nonsense would be laughable if it didn't have such negative impacts on actual people. And politicians haven't stopped, despite countless documented examples going back centuries.

Yep...

It could be argued that the ultimate blame falls on we, the voters, who unfathomably continue to (re)elect such politicians. Voters truly do get the government - and the consequences - they deserve. {/rant}

It's a common argument in democracies. But reality makes it fall apart. People vote for being represented, and then new laws are voted without the people's consent. If that makes them angry enough, they'll vote for the opposite camp next time. And the same will happen.

Not saying that  voters have no responsibility at all, but it seems pretty limited.
 

Offline IDEngineer

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #410 on: December 09, 2021, 08:33:01 pm »
It's a common argument in democracies. But reality makes it fall apart. People vote for being represented, and then new laws are voted without the people's consent. If that makes them angry enough, they'll vote for the opposite camp next time. And the same will happen.
The problem is recidivism (politely rephrased as "reelection" in politics).

The USA has something like a 90%+ recidivism rate amongst politicians. Your "voting for the opposite camp" sounds great in theory but if less than 10% of elected officials get turned over each election, not much is going to actually change. Who is to blame for such a high recidivism rate? Voters. And thus we come full circle to my earlier observation about getting the government voters deserve.
 
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Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #411 on: December 09, 2021, 09:21:27 pm »
That's somewhat beside the point -- no less true, mind -- but I think there's a stronger point you missed: if "the other side" gets voted in, they just do the same damn thing.

At least, that's what I parsed as "the same will happen".

Lottery democracy keeps sounding more and more promising.

I'd love to see a study of potential systems of that, and how they'd be gamed (because let's not fool ourselves, every system can and will be gamed), and how well that can be mitigated in turn.  Systems, because it wouldn't work quite as we have things now, an unspecialized candidate will need more a few more experts to do their job effectively -- though given the knowledge of some in Congress, maybe this isn't actually very important.  Anyway, somehow or another, their specialists, consultants, secretaries, whatever, will get influenced, picked from a pool of interests, that sort of thing -- it doesn't cure the problem, it's just more things to tweak.

Note that term limits set an arbitrary ceiling without justification; it's just some random number.  The most likely effect is that, those that can do good, won't be around long enough to accomplish much, while making everyone as a whole that much more susceptible to lobbying -- a constant stream of newbies, diluting cultural knowledge.  Not that all of their pageantry is exactly helpful or valuable, but whatever, they're a self-managed group, if it gets in the way they can change it themselves.

Tim
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Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Offline IDEngineer

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #412 on: December 09, 2021, 09:50:48 pm »
I think there's a stronger point you missed: if "the other side" gets voted in, they just do the same damn thing.
100% agree. The political parties are far more alike than different. They don't market themselves that way, but from the 10K foot view it's true. They want to control your choices and your money.

Quote
Note that term limits set an arbitrary ceiling without justification; it's just some random number.  The most likely effect is that, those that can do good, won't be around long enough to accomplish much, while making everyone as a whole that much more susceptible to lobbying -- a constant stream of newbies, diluting cultural knowledge.
There's truth in what you say, but I see term limits slightly differently. A term-limited elected official would know he/she would end up back home, living with their families and neighbors under the laws they helped pass or retain. There would of course be a semi-permanent unelected layer of circulating staff members and lobbyists in DC, and they could try to influence the short-term politicians, but ultimately those politicians are the ones casting the votes. And they act as an output filter... they take input from their staff and lobbyists and constituents, but the final vote is theirs. And while the staff and lobbyists will dump and forget a term-limited-out elected official, their own families and neighbors won't. And they know it. THOSE are ultimately the people to whom they will answer.

Term limits would also short-circuit the DC revolving door syndrome by drastically reducing the "value" of a former politician to a lobbying firm. If you can't be there long enough to create unholy alliances with other decades-long career politicians, you aren't of much value as a lobbyist!

Term limits are somewhat arbitrary, true. But that doesn't mean they don't have value and serve a purpose. The longer someone is distant from their constituents, the more they lose touch with the "folks back home". The more they become innured to the very (DC) things that probably encouraged them to run for office in the first place. Surrounded by like-minded individuals who have been in office for decades and mostly think about their next re-election, the easiest and most normal feeling thing is to start being like them. Acting like them. Considering such behavior as "normal".

There is a valid argument that we need people who gather and sustain institutional knowledge. I see those people as the staff members (I actually have one in my family). They play an important role, as counselors and "experts", but their job is to feed data to the elected official whose temporary responsibility is to process that data through the filter of the constituents who recently sent them to office and to whom that official will soon return to live with, and answer for, their votes. In this way we get the benefit of the institutional knowledge, but also a frequently refreshed output filter that is less likely to remain in DC as part of the systemic problem.

Just my $0.02, and I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #413 on: December 09, 2021, 10:15:58 pm »
It could be argued that the ultimate blame falls on we, the voters, who unfathomably continue to (re)elect such politicians. Voters truly do get the government - and the consequences - they deserve. {/rant}
In most elections its the least despised candidate who wins. You are only offered the choice of self serving scumbag 1 or self serving scumbag 2. This is why I like electoral systems with a "None of the above" box. Its a weak form of expressing your feelings, but its way ahead of voting for scumbag A because scumbag B seems even worse.

Democracy always seems to end up making public office so unappealing that in a country with many millions of people the only ones who want the job are the kind where you count your fingers after shaking their hand.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2021, 10:18:41 pm by coppice »
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #414 on: December 09, 2021, 10:41:04 pm »
Why is the thread descending into politics, we can't do anything to get democracy to evolve or improve. There is no corrective feedback loop, aside from complaint and that doesn't change much.
And it's (democracy) is under attack, possibly what's really driving these semi shortages.

Anyone notice 555 supply is running low, Mega328's out of stock 500,000 on order and 69 weeks for 2023 forecast. These are jellybeans...
 
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #415 on: December 09, 2021, 10:49:42 pm »
Why is the thread descending into politics, we can't do anything to get democracy to evolve or improve. There is no corrective feedback loop, aside from complaint and that doesn't change much.
And it's (democracy) is under attack, possibly what's really driving these semi shortages.

Anyone notice 555 supply is running low, Mega328's out of stock 500,000 on order and 69 weeks for 2023 forecast. These are jellybeans...

Democracy is under attack from within...  from people that feel it isn't working for them.
 
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Offline IDEngineer

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #416 on: December 09, 2021, 11:11:55 pm »
This is why I like electoral systems with a "None of the above" box. Its a weak form of expressing your feelings, but its way ahead of voting for scumbag A because scumbag B seems even worse.
NOTA is a great system if it includes the feature that if NOTA "wins" an election, the offered candidates are prohibited from appearing on the subsequent ballot. That forces fresh choices, and political parties would stop backing NOTA-losing candidates as a complete waste of money which might(?) lead to more voter-appealing candidates from the major parties.
 
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Offline IDEngineer

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #417 on: December 09, 2021, 11:16:20 pm »
Anyone notice 555 supply is running low, Mega328's out of stock 500,000 on order and 69 weeks for 2023 forecast. These are jellybeans...
We're all frustrated about the shortages.

We just had a partial shipment of connectors arrive today. Ordered 1050 back in June, delivery promised within 3-4 weeks (instead of the usual 2-4 days). Crickets. Crickets. Then received 772 today which they last said would be here 06 October (yep, they're two months late from their last rescheduled prediction). And 278 are still on backorder with no projected delivery date.

I blame the politicians because, well, absorbing blame is one of their few useful qualities.
 

Offline VK3DRBTopic starter

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #418 on: December 10, 2021, 02:00:07 am »
I am trying to design a buck converter. Input 7V-9V, output 5V, 2A max. The product will be fairly price sensitive. Normally a pretty straight forward exercise.

There are some buck converters around but TI has zero trust and confidence as a supplier. They are a company full of promises and hot air, but deliver nothing. I have not used Diodes Inc buck converters before, but there is the AP62200Z6-7, with only 26k of these chips available from one supplier - Digikey. No where else. They could go at any time. Lead time 52 weeks! I want to avoid LT and AD devices due to cost, but I feel there is little alternative.

Any suggestions for a buck converter that can be purchased, other than throwing in the towel and retiring?
 

Offline IDEngineer

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #419 on: December 10, 2021, 02:13:30 am »
TI has zero trust and confidence as a supplier. They are a company full of promises and hot air, but deliver nothing.
Just to relate something positive: I've ordered a couple of reels of IC's direct from TI's website in the last few months and they've delivered accurately and swiftly. Granted, they don't have a lot of the parts we need, but when they say they have them in stock they appear to be truthful and the reels show up fast.
 

Offline VK3DRBTopic starter

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #420 on: December 10, 2021, 02:32:23 am »
TI has zero trust and confidence as a supplier. They are a company full of promises and hot air, but deliver nothing.
Just to relate something positive: I've ordered a couple of reels of IC's direct from TI's website in the last few months and they've delivered accurately and swiftly. Granted, they don't have a lot of the parts we need, but when they say they have them in stock they appear to be truthful and the reels show up fast.

Thanks. 

I am designing the schematic now. The first engineering PCBA's won't be made until probably Feb and volume production probably June. The parts might be available now, but not then. Maybe I should delve a little deeper and just buy a few hundred from TI just in case. I might design in two buck converters from different brands as variants so that if one is not available, the other could be. I have heard of that being done due to this global chip shortage. Fortunately in this case I will have I have plenty of real estate on the PCB... a nice luxury to have. 

By the way, you are in the US? It was 2am there when you sent the reply!  :=\
 

Offline IDEngineer

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #421 on: December 10, 2021, 02:38:23 am »
Yes, in the USA. And it was in the 18:00 hour (6pm) when I sent that. Not sure what the site's clock is set to but it's not my local time!
 

Offline Kasper

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #422 on: December 10, 2021, 04:41:23 pm »
Yes, in the USA. And it was in the 18:00 hour (6pm) when I sent that. Not sure what the site's clock is set to but it's not my local time!

I was about to complain about the time display, having been sure I'd previously told the site what time zone I'm in.  I decided to check first and found it was set to 0.  I updated it and now it works!  Finally I can read the 'correct' time on posts!  Thank you for prompting me to look into this.

profile - look and layout - time offset
 

Offline IDEngineer

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #423 on: December 10, 2021, 05:53:02 pm »
Never noticed that before, thanks! -8 offset dialed in.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #424 on: December 11, 2021, 05:13:01 pm »
It's been a real pain finding IMUs over the last year.  For my latest build they are specially hard to find.  None of the distributors I'm familiar with have any of the 3 models I want or even post lead times.  Meanwhile, win source electronics says they have over 700,000 of them! 

Why does no one have IMUs but win source is holding ~$3M worth of them?  Almost 10x more stock than all the other stock listed on octopart combined.

Not familiar with win source but found some interesting info in the product page:
"fake threat in the open market: 88 pct." 
"supply and demand status: balance"

WinSource are compulsive liars.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/win-source/

They seem to have two tricks.

The first is a trick they've been using for some time, a bait & switch: they advertise at one price, you place an order (cash with order), and then a week later they come up with an excuse to increase the price, typically that the stock was "found not in good condition", but at the same time miraculously finding some more available at at least double the already inflated price. Meanwhile, you're pushed into a corner because there's nowhere left to go.

The only good part is that IME they do deliver working parts.

The second trick, and WinSource hardly alone in this, is that they've spent their time over the past year+ compiling an extremely healthy supposedly in-stock stock list at grossly inflated prices. Meanwhile, at the main global distributors, the cupboard is bare, presumably because the likes of WinSource sit around buying up everything before customers get a look in.

I've mentioned this before, this is essentially the semiconductor equivalent of Mad Max.

If you look on NetComponents for example, there are always substantial volumes of all parts around, almost all of that stock sitting in China. As soon as you make enquiries, those who do respond with a quote are invariably massively over priced.

Touch wood I've not been stung yet with dodgy parts via NetComponents, but be prepared for 10x plus inflated prices.
 


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